<div>Hi people,</div><div><br></div>I've been following this conversation with interest (unnecessarily heated I must say).<div><div><br></div><div>I have</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic;">A couple of questions: </span></div>
<div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: bold;">What would be the definition of local content?</span></div><div><br></div><div>- any content hosted locally </div><div>- local content hosted anywhere </div>
<div>- local content hosted locally</div><div>- <something></div><div><br></div><div>This local content issue has been discussed over and over again. It would probably help if there's a general understanding of what local content is. As it is there's some confusion whether a swahili site hosted somewhere in Canada would qualify as local content. Maybe if this is clear, we could move towards the how to spur generation of local content.</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: bold;">Is it ethical to add someone to an email list without their consent?</span></div><div>- Yes </div><div>- No</div><div><br></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic;">And a couple of comments:</span></div><div><br></div><div>If some people would feel that TANDAA was not what it should be, why not just organise what they'd consider an ideal showcase of local content? It's a free world. Personal attacks don't take us anywhere.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I was not able to attend TANDAA due to other commitments. I've however learnt about <a href="http://kasarani.com">kasarani.com</a>, <a href="http://askadoc.co.ke">askadoc.co.ke</a> from the various emails and blog posts. Interesting stuff. I wouldn't be able to give any assessment on the success or otherwise of the event, so I won't. </div>
<div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic;">An aside</span>: would <a href="http://ushahidi.com">ushahidi.com</a> be considered local content... considering that it's already being used as a tool within the conflict afflicted DRC. (check out <a href="http://www.ushahidi.com">www.ushahidi.com</a> for more info) Looks like its more than just local.</div>
<div> </div><div>Regards<br></div><div>Josiah</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 1:42 PM, Robert Alai <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:alai.robert@gmail.com" target="_blank">alai.robert@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Wainaina<br><br>Thanks for this one<br><br>I now agree with you and hiyo ni maendeleo<br><br>The how is very key here. <br><br>As for thee mailing list (mine), we are happy. If you are not and I have not addressed your problem, send me a mail showing the complaints you sent to me and was not addressed. I make sure that I address all complaints and dont discriminate and if you complain, infact I dont just remove you, I ban you so that my other buddies wont ever add you<br>
<br>Regards<br><font color="#888888">Robert</font><div><div></div><div><br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 11/18/08, <b class="gmail_sendername">Wainaina Mungai</b> <<a href="mailto:wainaina@madeinkenya.org" target="_blank">wainaina@madeinkenya.org</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex">
Hi all,<br> <br> The issue building up here is on HOW to generate local content and the<br> ways not to do it.<br> <br> We have seen cases of ''how not to do it'' as per the mailinglists and<br> websites facing complaints from listers here.<br>
<br> I believe members can now find way on 'how to' generate and collate<br> local content in solutions such as Ushahidi.com and BungeSMS.com that<br> seek to exploit the pervasive nature of mobile telephony to increase<br>
citizen generated content on the web.<br> <br> Google Kenya has done a great job with Google maps that now has easily<br> searchable maps of Nairobi even via mobile devices such as smartphones<br> with GPS feature coupled with data through the GSM networks. A<br>
security & privacy question however arises here even as the content<br> question has been addressed.<br> <br><br> <br> <br> On 11/18/08, Robert Alai <<a href="mailto:alai.robert@gmail.com" target="_blank">alai.robert@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Wainaina<br> ><br> > Know that the fact that you dont agree with someone doesnt mean that you<br> > must raid the media house.<br> ><br> > Thats what you are trying to say here. We are discussing IT matters and what<br>
> you bring are your personal problems.<br> ><br> > If you have spammed my address and lists, why make noise? Blacklists them. I<br> > will handle that in another way and know that I am registered in this forum<br>
> all through and this forum doesnt belong to Wainaina and the ealier you<br> > realise that the better for you. Lets discuss matters which help this nation<br> > and not go personal because let me assure you that for every on of my<br>
> actions before and in th future, I have a perfect answer for them.<br> ><br> > If you have a problem with BidiiAfrika send an email to<br> > <a href="mailto:bidiiafrika-owner@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">bidiiafrika-owner@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
><br> > And again on Media, I like NMG since they have toned rhetoric and very high<br> > voltage news unlike KTN and standard group which still report like Kenya is<br> > going to war. I disagree with them but surely I wont like anybody raiding<br>
> them<br> ><br> > Regards<br> > Alai<br> ><br> > On 11/18/08, Wainaina Mungai <<a href="mailto:wainaina@madeinkenya.org" target="_blank">wainaina@madeinkenya.org</a>> wrote:<br> >><br> >> This is exactly the feedback I expected. I'm not at all disappointed<br>
>> as it has happened before.<br> >><br> >> KICTANet needs to do something about importing such conduct from other<br> >> lists.<br> >><br> >><br> >> Wainaina<br> >><br> >><br>
>> On 11/18/08, Robert Alai <<a href="mailto:alai.robert@gmail.com" target="_blank">alai.robert@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br> >> > Hi all,<br> >> ><br> >> > As indicated by Alex, spam & forced mailinglist subscriptions is a<br>
>> > critical "local content" issue now that Alai has pointed fingers.<br> >> ><br> >> > I have been forced onto lists that do not allow for unsubscribing thus<br> >> > I have marked Alai's address and his mailinglists as spam addresses.<br>
>> ><br> >> > Robert, please sort that out first so that the "traffic" and<br> >> > "subscription" numbers on your lists is a true reflection of<br> >> > subscription by choice rather than forced numbers.<br>
>> ><br> >> > I bet someone else has had the same experience with Kazi africa, bidii<br> >> > africa and other lists.<br> >> ><br> >> > Wainaina. See the reply I gave to Gakuru. Blame your teacher and you<br>
>> > have<br> >> no<br> >> > use being in KICTANET if you cant even know how to operate simple email<br> >> > addresses in,lists<br> >> ><br> >> ><br> >> > Alai<br>
>> ><br> >> ><br> >> ><br> >> ><br> >> ><br> >> ><br> >> ><br> >> ><br> >> ><br> >> ><br> >> ><br> >> ><br> >> ><br>
>> ><br> >> ><br> >> > On 11/18/08, Wainaina Mungai <<a href="mailto:wainaina@madeinkenya.org" target="_blank">wainaina@madeinkenya.org</a>> wrote:<br> >> >><br> >> >> Hi all,<br>
>> >><br> >> >> As indicated by Alex, spam & forced mailinglist subscriptions is a<br> >> >> critical "local content" issue now that Alai has pointed fingers.<br> >> >><br>
>> >> I have been forced onto lists that do not allow for unsubscribing thus<br> >> >> I have marked Alai's address and his mailinglists as spam addresses.<br> >> >><br> >> >> Robert, please sort that out first so that the "traffic" and<br>
>> >> "subscription" numbers on your lists is a true reflection of<br> >> >> subscription by choice rather than forced numbers.<br> >> >><br> >> >> I bet someone else has had the same experience with Kazi africa, bidii<br>
>> >> africa and other lists.<br> >> >><br> >> >> Wainaina<br> >> >><br> >> >><br> >> >> On 11/18/08, Gakuru Alex <<a href="mailto:alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com" target="_blank">alexgakuru.lists@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> >> > Alai,<br> >> >> ><br> >> >> > I am somewhat now tempted to start a local content blog focusing on<br> >> >> > 'opinion influencers' and opinion shapers themselves - informed by<br>
>> >> > the<br> >> >> > fact that, content is king and awaited 'future online content<br> >> >> > warfare'<br> >> >> > arrived a long time ago.<br> >> >> ><br>
>> >> > So despite excluding my skunkworks presentation from your firing<br> >> >> > squad, I shall nonetheless shoot back at you;)<br> >> >> ><br> >> >> > On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 12:37 AM, Robert Alai <<a href="mailto:alai.robert@gmail.com" target="_blank">alai.robert@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> >> wrote:<br> >> >> >> Mirembe<br> >> >> >><br> >> >> >> I have a very open and honest analysis of our Tandaa conference.<br> >> >> >><br>
>> >> >> The facts which we must change is that Paul Kukubo, my big brother<br> >> >> >> still<br> >> >> >> sees it best to defend foreign companies and say that "eve if we<br>
>> >> >> want<br> >> >> >> local<br> >> >> >> content we must stilldo it with foreigners'.<br> >> >> ><br> >> >> > Paul stated, "Let's realise that Internet is one. How can have 'our<br>
>> >> > Internet' so shielded away for 'outsiders Internet' to the extent<br> >> >> > that<br> >> >> > 'our content' is only accessible to us yet somehow we expected to<br>
>> >> > make money from 'outsiders' through 'our Internet'? Maybe we should<br> >> >> > not use downloaded [even-free] 'foreign' software, 'foreign'<br> >> >> > computers, 'foreign' concepts, nothing 'foreign' except only localyy<br>
>> >> > made?" That was heavy!<br> >> >> ><br> >> >> >>Let me tell you a thing. We<br> >> >> >> must focus on local mpaka it becomes music. When I saw the slides of<br>
>> >> >> Joe<br> >> >> >> Mucheru, which apparently I have seen in every conference I have<br> >> >> attended<br> >> >> >> in<br> >> >> >> which he is the speaker. The websites listed there, non were Kenyan.<br>
>> >> >> The<br> >> >> >> fact that Mucheru works for a Carlifornian company and he is Kenyan<br> >> >> should<br> >> >> >> make Mucheru sell Kenya more.<br>
>> >> ><br> >> >> > Its what all (or at least the majority of) the people in that room<br> >> >> > were there *actually doing* Give Mucheru a break. (You stand accused<br> >> >> > of promoting 'foreign content' by using Google mailing lists;)<br>
>> >> ><br> >> >> >> If you wanted a subscription website, you<br> >> >> >> should have started with <a href="http://kenyalaw.org" target="_blank">kenyalaw.org</a>. If you wanted affiliates,<br>
>> >> >> <a href="http://mamamikes.com" target="_blank">mamamikes.com</a> has affiliates. Lets focus on local. Lets give it lots<br> >> of<br> >> >> >> thought. We must give local examples and then mention the foreign<br>
>> ones<br> >> >> >> just<br> >> >> >> as an after-thought.<br> >> >> ><br> >> >> > I wish you had asked ICT Board to make a presentation to the audience<br>
>> >> > to articulate you point?<br> >> >> ><br> >> >> >> We want the companies to give the local content much thought and<br> >> >> >> they<br> >> >> can<br>
>> >> >> only do that when they think locally. When you make people believe<br> >> that<br> >> >> >> facebook is great, we wont head anywhere. See why Tanzanians are<br> >> >> engaging<br>
>> >> >> more in <a href="http://bongo5.com" target="_blank">bongo5.com</a> and jamiiforums than facebook and others. They<br> >> are<br> >> >> >> actively loading pics and content and these two websites are really<br>
>> >> coming<br> >> >> >> up well and considreing the age of the websites, we will see nice<br> >> >> >> things<br> >> >> >> from them. We should not glorify anything western. We must start<br>
>> >> >> appreciating our own facebook like Ngari has developed a good site,<br> >> >> >> <a href="http://www.kasarani.com" target="_blank">www.kasarani.com</a><br> >> >> ><br>
>> >> > Kasarani is your website, right? The conference was not a sales pitch<br>
>> >> > for *anyone* but a conversation exploring various ways to promote<br> >> >> > local content.<br> >> >> ><br> >> >> >> When I started my start forum and blogging thing, <a href="http://jamiiforums.com" target="_blank">jamiiforums.com</a>,<br>
>> we<br> >> >> had<br> >> >> >> lots of problems. But we also had people telling us that the forum<br> >> >> >> which<br> >> >> >> is<br> >> >> >> being run by my great friend Maxence, was going nowhere because<br>
>> >> Tanzanians<br> >> >> >> don't speak a lot of English. See the site now. I don't think that<br> >> >> >> there<br> >> >> >> is<br> >> >> >> any forum in this region with that kind of killer traffic.<br>
>> >> ><br> >> >> > Me, me, me again... Try a bit of our, our, our, country's local<br> >> content.<br> >> >> ><br> >> >> >> There is no forum<br>
>> >> >> in this region which makes the government shakes like hell when<br>
>> issues<br> >> >> are<br> >> >> >> being analyzed there. And they are doing it most of the time in<br> >> >> >> Swahili.<br> >> >> >> We<br> >> >> >> must focus on being local if we want local content.<br>
>> >> ><br> >> >> > 'Government' is a strange 3-legged animal Executive, Legislature, and<br> >> >> > Judiciacy.<br> >> >> > If one makes this animal 'shake like hell,' that person ought to be<br>
>> >> > in<br> >> >> > very serious trouble...<br> >> >> ><br> >> >> >> NMG bought a script from Germans and installed it on their site<br> >> without<br>
>> >> a<br> >> >> >> forum nor blogs for the senior writers. Why? No creativity. NTV,<br> >> EasyFm<br> >> >> >> and<br> >> >> >> QFM are not online. A very good percentage of articles in Mailbox<br>
>> >> >> are<br> >> >> >> plagiarized from blogs and forums without acknowledgement and<br> >> articles<br> >> >> in<br> >> >> >> entertainment and lifestyle mazagines are plagiarized from magazines<br>
>> >> like<br> >> >> >> cosmopolitan and Elle sometimes word for word.<br> >> >> ><br> >> >> > Why so excessive negative energy? There must be something NMG have<br>
>> done<br> >> >> > right?<br> >> >> ><br> >> >> >> The Tandaa website was .com and not .<a href="http://co.ke" target="_blank">co.ke</a>. Even if you are not<br> >> hosting<br>
>> >> >> locally, you could still have had a local domain registration.<br> >> >> ><br> >> >> > Had you tried <a href="http://www.tandaa.co.ke/" target="_blank">http://www.tandaa.co.ke/</a> before the conference? BTW, I<br>
>> >> > host websites abroad many times and I have no problems with it. It<br> >> >> > can<br> >> >> > be a business decision why host locally with painfully expensive ISP?<br>
>> >> > Host 'politically incorrect' website at a pro-conformist provider<br> >> >> > 'anti-telcos' content with one of them.... etc.. It's a matrix of<br> >> >> > decision making procees..<br>
>> >> ><br> >> >> >> The funniest thing I got from the conference, why would 6 or 7<br> >> speakers<br> >> >> >> speak for 15 minutes each and then the forum audience is given 10<br>
>> >> minutes<br> >> >> >> to ask questions and suggestions?<br> >> >> ><br> >> >> > The sun waits for no King and time has never been enough.<br> >> >> ><br>
>> >> >>Do you know that the slides from Capital,<br> >> >> >> NMG, Google, Homeboyz, Kictanet, ICT board, Strathmore, Rich, Cisco<br> >> and<br> >> >> >> others are shown to us almost in every conference we attend. They<br>
>> have<br> >> >> >> become so predictable that the best place to get more stories and<br> >> even<br> >> >> >> slides which you have never seen is from the public.<br> >> >> ><br>
>> >> > Would you also be suggesting that new school textbooks be published<br> >> >> > every<br> >> >> > year?<br> >> >> ><br> >> >> >>Givingg 15 minutes to<br>
>> >> >> each speaker which is 105 minutes for the seven speakers then the<br> >> >> audience<br> >> >> >> asks and get replies in 10 minutes is really not correct and shows<br>
>> and<br> >> >> >> attitude of escapism where te audience are feared that they might<br> >> >> embarass<br> >> >> >> the speakers with questions.<br> >> >> ><br>
>> >> > You just created conveniently suitable circumstances to arrive at<br> >> >> > your<br> >> >> > conclusion?<br> >> >> ><br> >> >> >> The other facts of the conference was ok. The moderator, Al Kags,<br>
>> >> >> was<br> >> >> >> ok<br> >> >> >> but<br> >> >> >> I think that we can do alot of improvements by having power cable<br> >> well<br> >> >> >> spread for bloggers and also the Wi-Fi to be abit superior. I had to<br>
>> >> rely<br> >> >> >> on<br> >> >> >> my Zain unlimited since the ICT board Wi-fi kept shutting down.<br> >> >> ><br> >> >> > Would it not have been fair to mention some of those 'ok' facts. Its<br>
>> >> > called "fair commentating"<br> >> >> ><br> >> >> >> We also think that we can have an active network and the best place<br> >> to<br> >> >> >> start<br>
>> >> >> is now here in KICTANET. I see us turning KICTANET into an open<br> >> >> vbulletin<br> >> >> >> run forum with CMS managed frontpage like <a href="http://www.haitiwebs.com" target="_blank">www.haitiwebs.com</a> and<br>
>> >> >> <a href="http://www.mustangevolution.com" target="_blank">www.mustangevolution.com</a>. Vbulletin is so superior and it wont take<br> >> us<br> >> >> >> even<br> >> >> >> a day to have this thing up and running.<br>
>> >> ><br> >> >> > Dunno..<br> >> >> ><br> >> >> >> Senior members, what do you think?<br> >> >> ><br> >> >> > I just have. But allow me to add that *nix users have this thing<br>
>> >> > about<br> >> >> > multi-thread thought processes which lead me to advice users to<br> >> >> > format<br> >> >> > their Windows and install *nix. It makes engagement multi-faceted<br>
>> >> > critique and criticize when necessesary but also appreciate and<br> >> >> > praise<br> >> >> > excellent achievement.<br> >> >> ><br> >> >> > Tandaa.08 was an excellent event and I wish the ICT board could<br>
>> >> > explain to us who were the brains behind it. They can count on me for<br> >> >> > their next such conference.<br> >> >> ><br> >> >> > Rider:<br> >> >> ><br>
>> >> > There is a clip one run NTV of an Edloret pharmacist who literary and<br> >> >> > severally slapped himself on the face upon being visited by<br> >> >> > Pharmacies<br>
>> >> > and Poisons Board drug inspectors.<br> >> >> > Let's not always take the shrtest route to slap every great<br> >> >> > initiative, erroneously.<br> >> >> ><br>
>> >> > Also we avoid "local content spam", for example, forced mailing lists<br> >> >> > subscriptions;)<br> >> >> ><br> >> >> > G'day,<br> >> >> ><br>
>> >><br> >> >> > _______________________________________________<br> >> >> > kictanet mailing list<br> >> >> > <a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><br>
>> >> > <a href="http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet" target="_blank">http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet</a><br> >> >> ><br> >> >><br> >> >> > This message was sent to: <a href="mailto:wainaina@madeinkenya.org" target="_blank">wainaina@madeinkenya.org</a><br>
>> >><br> >> >> > Unsubscribe or change your options at<br> >> >><br> >> >> ><br> >> >><br> >> <a href="http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/wainaina%40madeinkenya.org" target="_blank">http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/wainaina%40madeinkenya.org</a><br>
>> >> ><br> >> >><br> >> >> --<br> >> >> Sent from my mobile device<br> >> >><br> >> >> Made in Kenya Network<br> >> >> Apt. B-8, Elite Park<br>
>> >> Ole Odume Road<br> >> >> P. O. Box 72031 - 00200<br> >> >> Nairobi. Kenya<br> >> >> Tel: +254-20-3590451<br> >> >> Cel: +254-722-811171<br> >> >> Cel: +254-735-370840<br>
>> >> <a href="http://www.madeinkenya.org" target="_blank">www.madeinkenya.org</a><br> >> >><br> >> >> <a href="http://www.bungesms.com" target="_blank">http://www.bungesms.com</a><br>
>> >><br> >> >><br>
>> >> _______________________________________________<br> >> >> kictanet mailing list<br> >> >> <a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><br>
>> >> <a href="http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet" target="_blank">http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet</a><br>
>> >><br> >> >><br> >> >> This message was sent to: <a href="mailto:alai.robert@gmail.com" target="_blank">alai.robert@gmail.com</a><br> >> >> Unsubscribe or change your options at<br>
>> >><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/alai.robert%40gmail.com" target="_blank">http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/alai.robert%40gmail.com</a><br> >> >><br> >> ><br>
>><br> >><br> >> --<br> >><br> >> Sent from my mobile device<br> >><br> >> Made in Kenya Network<br> >> Apt. B-8, Elite Park<br> >> Ole Odume Road<br> >> P. O. Box 72031 - 00200<br>
>> Nairobi. Kenya<br> >> Tel: +254-20-3590451<br> >> Cel: +254-722-811171<br> >> Cel: +254-735-370840<br> >> <a href="http://www.madeinkenya.org" target="_blank">www.madeinkenya.org</a><br>
>><br>
>> <a href="http://www.bungesms.com" target="_blank">http://www.bungesms.com</a><br> >><br> ><br> <br> <br>--<br> <br>Sent from my mobile device<br> <br> Made in Kenya Network<br> Apt. B-8, Elite Park<br>
Ole Odume Road<br>
P. O. Box 72031 - 00200<br> Nairobi. Kenya<br> Tel: +254-20-3590451<br> Cel: +254-722-811171<br> Cel: +254-735-370840<br> <a href="http://www.madeinkenya.org" target="_blank">www.madeinkenya.org</a><br> <br> <a href="http://www.bungesms.com" target="_blank">http://www.bungesms.com</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Josiah Mugambi<br>+254 738 504418<br><br><a href="http://blog.josiahmugambi.com" target="_blank">http://blog.josiahmugambi.com</a><br><br>SK Classifeds... Visit <a href="http://stockskenya.co.ke" target="_blank">stockskenya.co.ke</a> for more info. <br>
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