[kictanet] Safaricom changes to home fibre ToS
tevin mwenda
tevinmwenda at gmail.com
Thu Feb 18 11:42:11 EAT 2021
Thank you very much for this debate. I am learning a lot on Fair Use
Policy. I guess no more watching Netflix in 4K High definition.
Kind Regards
Tevin Mwenda Gitonga
On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 11:07 AM Josiah Mugambi via kictanet <
kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> My takeaway is that FUPs should be published as a requirement. Also don't
> torrent too much.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 11:04 AM Barrack Otieno via kictanet <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
>> @Ali Hussein <ahussein at kictanet.or.ke> what if the Customer does not
>> have sufficient Capacity to understand FUP, si unampea tu ajisomee na
>> ajipange. By the way even fish can't come to a fisherman who doesnt have
>> bait yet they are analogue ama namna gani?
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 10:59 AM Ali Hussein via kictanet <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>> I do appreciate your very candid responses and of course, I wouldnt
>>> expect you to agree with my 'conspiracy theories' about data. The fact that
>>> you can't run away from is this:-
>>>
>>> Most ISPs run a *Bait and switch *sales operations machine. This a
>>> morally suspect sales tactic that lures customers in with specific claims
>>> about the quality or low prices on items that turn out to be unavailable in
>>> order to upsell them on a similar, pricier item. It is considered a form of
>>> retail sales fraud, though it takes place in other contexts.
>>>
>>> So, when you are selling me bandwidth, don't hide the FUP in T&Cs. Tell
>>> me to my face. Then I decide whether I'm ok with it or not. This is the
>>> biggest issue here. Not whether FUPs are done or not.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> *Ali Hussein*
>>>
>>> Digital Transformation
>>>
>>>
>>> Tel: +254 713 601113
>>>
>>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>>>
>>> Skype: abu-jomo
>>>
>>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>>> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely
>>> mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the
>>> organizations that I work with.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 10:47 AM Andrew Alston <
>>> Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Safaricom did tell you about the FUP – unlike most ISP’s in the world
>>>> that never disclose what those FUP’s are.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also – I’d be very careful about alleging that ISP’s are all looking at
>>>> user data – particularly because it’s a patently false allegation that all
>>>> data is analyzed on all links. Yes – some ISP’s probably do do that kinda
>>>> DPI on every circuit – but it certainly isn’t the case for a large portion
>>>> of them – because its not economically feasible to do it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Again, someone would have to pay for those analytics engines – and
>>>> having written a significant amount of code to detect ddos attacks using
>>>> pure packet headers (metadata) – I can tell you flatly that this belief
>>>> that an ISP is sniffing every packet and analyzing it – is a conspiracy
>>>> theory with very little basis in fact.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To back this up – on a software based platform – the following is the
>>>> processing pipeline for packet analytics of packet metadata
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. Receive the packet
>>>> 2. Categorize the packet
>>>> 1. By the Ethernet Protocol ID (IPv4, IPv6, possibly .1q tags)
>>>> 2. By the Layer 4 Protocol byte (Specifically byte 9 of the IP
>>>> header in V4 traffic)
>>>> 3. Store the 32bit Source and Destination – combined with the
>>>> Source and Destination port of the Layer 4 header dependent on if its UDP
>>>> or TCP
>>>> 4. Hash the whole lot and place it into a lookup table against
>>>> the 5 way tuple.
>>>> 3. Even if you vectorize that process – you are still looking at a
>>>> coupla milliseconds per packet – times millions of packets a second. A
>>>> modern server can do that kinda accounting at ~20gigabit/second if they
>>>> bypass kernel which bloats things – but – they haven’t touched the data
>>>> segment of the packet.
>>>> 4. If you look at Cisco routers – if you do port mirroring – you
>>>> are limited to mirroring the first 128 bytes of the packet – because the
>>>> replication of anything beyond that kills performance, it can’t be done at
>>>> line rate
>>>> 5. If you look at Juniper routers – you can port mirror for
>>>> analytics on the full packet – but at the cost of performance.
>>>> 6. On hardware asic based routing – analytics such as you are
>>>> referring to requires CPU punt – because the asics aren’t designed to do
>>>> what you are proposing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A 10gig circuit can be running in excess of a million packets a second
>>>> – even if you are vectorizing the packet processing – just analyzing the
>>>> headers to categorize it – before you attempt to hash it and bucket it –
>>>> requires a minimum of 100 instructions post packet receipt – add the
>>>> hashing and bucketing – you’re looking at a few thousand instructions to
>>>> the CPU **per packet** - add the payload analytics – this goes up by
>>>> orders of magnitude – last I checked – ISP’s don’t have super computers
>>>> lying around.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you want full DPI to the level of analytics you are proposing – you
>>>> HAVE to analyze the full payload content of the packet – and while there
>>>> are boxes that can do this – they cost **millions** (of dollars not
>>>> KSH) – and ISP’s generally aren’t gonna spend that kinda money unless they
>>>> have to – because the cost has to be passed to the users.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Andrew
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From: *Ali Hussein <ali at hussein.me.ke>
>>>> *Date: *Thursday, 18 February 2021 at 10:32
>>>> *To: *Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
>>>> *Cc: *KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [kictanet] Safaricom changes to home fibre ToS
>>>>
>>>> Andrew
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Wacha kizungu mingi (I think you are Kenyan enough to understand what
>>>> I've just said). 😁
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Let me put you on the spot. To come up with FUP's you already know
>>>> whose doing what so that 'innocence' of telling us about privacy now is
>>>> moot. You all use these tools to snoop on us. Period. Now do it for the
>>>> benefit of the customer. Not yours. This is really very simple. You all are
>>>> crying foul about costs blah blah...but when you were wooing us you didn't
>>>> tell us about FUP...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Do the right thing mate...Be on the right side of history.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Ali Hussein*
>>>>
>>>> Digital Transformation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tel: +254 713 601113
>>>>
>>>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>>>>
>>>> Skype: abu-jomo
>>>>
>>>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely
>>>> mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the
>>>> organizations that I work with.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 10:19 AM Andrew Alston <
>>>> Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Ali,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I respectfully disagree – FUP’s have been apart of the Internet since
>>>> day one since they protect the integrity of the networks as a whole.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You have the option of buying an account without such an FUP – it just
>>>> costs more – because someone has to cover the costs. Bandwidth doesn’t
>>>> come free. This is the same reason why there are contention ratios (which
>>>> I notice Safaricom also publishes).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You refer to big data analytics – yet if I were to propose that an ISP
>>>> actively sniff and analyze user traffic – you’d be screaming about
>>>> violations of privacy – because the type of analytics you are talking about
>>>> would require deep packet inspection at levels you don’t even want to
>>>> contemplate.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Let me be clear – you get what you pay for – and if every user decided
>>>> to use their FUP allocated terabyte to its full capacity – for every 3240
>>>> users you would need a 10gigabit circuit – if every user ran at their
>>>> maximum speeds on the 100mbit accounts – for every 100 users you would need
>>>> a 10gigabit circuit. Trust me when I say – there is no world in which an
>>>> ISP could afford to provide 10gigabit of bandwidth at a cost of effectively
>>>> under $11k a month and still remain viable – which is what would happen if
>>>> all those users maxed out.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So – let me ask you – would you prefer that ALL the users be penalized
>>>> with significantly higher prices – or would you prefer that people abide by
>>>> what is fair (and what is in this case, a FUP that is 4 times the global
>>>> average usage for home user accounts – which is just north of 250gigabytes
>>>> of data a month on global average)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Andrew
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From: *Ali Hussein <ali at hussein.me.ke>
>>>> *Date: *Thursday, 18 February 2021 at 10:11
>>>> *To: *KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>>> *Cc: *Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [kictanet] Safaricom changes to home fibre ToS
>>>>
>>>> Andrew
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Let me call this BS as it should be called. BS. Surely, of all people,
>>>> you shouldn't be the one to justify FUP. I appreciate your honesty though.
>>>> 😀
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here's a thought:-
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> With all the tools available using Big Data and Analytics, aren't you
>>>> all able to isolate the abusers and punish them instead of painting all of
>>>> us with the same abuser tar brush?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think we are in the age of companies treating their customers with
>>>> the respect they deserve and actually do right by them. What you have
>>>> described is communal punishment. This is wrong and the regulator needs to
>>>> take note.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Ali Hussein*
>>>>
>>>> Digital Transformation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tel: +254 713 601113
>>>>
>>>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>>>>
>>>> Skype: abu-jomo
>>>>
>>>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely
>>>> mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the
>>>> organizations that I work with.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 8:13 AM Andrew Alston via kictanet <
>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I’ve hesitated to climb into this but – here goes anyway (everything
>>>> written in personal capacity)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Firstly – almost ALL ISP’s have FUP’s in some form or another –
>>>> generally buried deep in the T&C’s – as someone stated to me – in the UK
>>>> with certain ISP’s suddenly your line just gets slow and then when you call
>>>> support you find yourself quietly diverted to the abuse department.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The fact is that FUP’s are a necessary evil.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. They prevent customers from reselling one account to multiple
>>>> other parties while sharing it using NAT – which impacts the financial
>>>> viability of the service and make its more expensive for everyone else in
>>>> the end
>>>> 2. ISP’s operate on contention ratios – if you do not impose some
>>>> form of FUP – you either have to put up the price or the contention ratios
>>>> are going to get out of whack – and everyone else is going to suffer.
>>>> 3. Globally most home accounts use well shy of half a terabyte a
>>>> month – a terabyte of data is a LOT of data for a single home
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So let’s just put some context in what a terabyte of data actually
>>>> means – and I always use video as the prime gauge of this because it’s the
>>>> easiest example.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Your average Netflix 4k film runs at ~25mbit at absolute maximum if you
>>>> are watching 4K on an HDR enabled TV. That’s 22.5 Gigabytes of data every
>>>> 2 hours – if you watch one 4K 2 hour movie every single day for a month you
>>>> will eat 675gigs of data. If we drop this to 1080p – which is far more
>>>> common – you are using ~7 megabit of bandwidth – or 6.3gigs every 2 hours –
>>>> if you watch 300 hours of 1080p content in a month – or 10 hours a day –
>>>> you still haven’t hit that cap.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Effectively – you could watch one 4K movie every day for a month – and
>>>> still watch 150 40minute tv episodes in 1080p in a month – and have room to
>>>> move.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To look at it from another perspective – installation of something like
>>>> Ubuntu Linux over the net – you could still over 400 machines on that kinda
>>>> data load in a month.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> With regards to gaming – you may burn 100gig pulling down a game and
>>>> game updates – but after that in game play you are using tiny amounts of
>>>> bandwidth and could keep yourself playing easily for a month with space to
>>>> spare.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Zoom calls – if you ran zoom 24 hours a day – for a month – you’d
>>>> use less than 70% of that cap.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also – I might point out that the FUP’s slow your link down once you
>>>> hit that cap – to a rate that is still useable if a little sluggish.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Basically what I’m saying in all of this – Safaricom’s FUP and T&C’s to
>>>> me seem perfectly reasonable and designed to protect the network – with the
>>>> alternative being – the price goes up for everyone or everyone suffers
>>>> because of the few when the network congests. Bandwidth aint free – and
>>>> you can’t have it both ways – the product still has to make financial sense
>>>> to both the consumer and the provider
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Andrew
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From: *kictanet <kictanet-bounces+andrew.alston=
>>>> liquidtelecom.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke> on behalf of Adam Lane via
>>>> kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>>> *Date: *Thursday, 18 February 2021 at 07:36
>>>> *To: *Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
>>>> *Cc: *Adam Lane <adam.lane at huawei.com>
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [kictanet] Safaricom changes to home fibre ToS
>>>>
>>>> There's a webinar on this topic today for those interested
>>>>
>>>> A Public Policy Discussion on #HomeFibre and #FairUsage Policies in
>>>> Kenya.
>>>>
>>>> 🗓️ Thursday, 18th February 2021
>>>>
>>>> 🕜 12:00PM - 1:30PM
>>>>
>>>> Sign up here:
>>>>
>>>> 🔗 https://t.co/LdD11UVy8q
>>>>
>>>> #LawyersHub #AfricaLawTech #ISP https://t.co/a5w9SUiAl6
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Speakers from CA, Safaricom, Liquid, KICTAnet,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:*Beryl Aidi via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>>>
>>>> *To:*Adam Lane <adam.lane at huawei.com>
>>>>
>>>> *Cc:*Beryl Aidi <bee.aidi at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> *Date:*2021-02-18 05:57:28
>>>>
>>>> *Subject:*Re: [kictanet] Safaricom changes to home fibre ToS
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you Sidney for this.
>>>>
>>>> I don’t think Safaricom is being sincere in this fair usage limits.
>>>> They promised that with Home Fibre one can stream, download or upload stuff
>>>> without limits. All you do is pay your monthly subscription. Fair usage is
>>>> a type of rationing that limits how much you can do when you had been
>>>> promised that you can do whatever you want. To me this is going back on a
>>>> promise. It’s reminiscent of the days of unlimited 3GB bundles on the
>>>> dongle modem only for them to strike you with a fair usage notice. Are
>>>> other networks doing the same? As the industry leader in the country, this
>>>> is bound to influence other industry players to adopt the same standards
>>>> and limits which is not good. Maybe it might be time to seek other options.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Beryl
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 16 Feb 2021, at 9:47 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet <
>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Sidney for initiating this debate.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 at 19:44, Sidney Ochieng via kictanet <
>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Listers,
>>>>
>>>> Not sure if you've seen the stir online of changes to the ToS with
>>>> Safaricom's home offering.
>>>>
>>>> Safaricom is destroying Home Fibre with new ‘Fair Usage’ Limits:
>>>> https://tech-ish.com/2021/02/14/safaricom-is-destroying-home-fibre-with-new-fair-usage-limits/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The response from the company has been disappointing in the extreme,
>>>> misleading with statistics and suggesting that it's best customers are
>>>> thieves <https://twitter.com/Safaricom_Care/status/1360876964651929600>
>>>> ,
>>>> never mind that working for home has lead to increased demand and use
>>>> of their services.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That tweet certainly does not call resellers thieves. It calls them
>>>> resellers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> All this is beside the point, at least for this forum, what I'm
>>>> concerned about this that if we didn't have an eagle-eyed blogger looking
>>>> out for this, it would have been completely missed until it was already in
>>>> place.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So I have a few of questions:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Does the CA have any policies around ToS changes around services
>>>> under their purview and how they are communicated to users?
>>>>
>>>> CA has a consumer and public affairs department. Here is what they have
>>>> to say about ToC ( CA/CPA/CEP/B/05/2014 )
>>>> https://ca.go.ke/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Consumer-Rights-and-Responsibilities.pdf
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps CA should update that information. It is 6 years old. But good
>>>> information nevertheless.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. Should companies that run what could be considered critical
>>>> infrastructure be allowed to arbitrarily change their ToS to apply
>>>> retroactively especially if it's to the detriment of their customers?
>>>>
>>>> I hope lawyers here can help us with this.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1.
>>>> 2. If customers choose not to accept a change in ToS what redress
>>>> do they have given that perhaps the provider is the only one available in
>>>> their area.
>>>> 3. Finally, given that we know this could all be avoided if there
>>>> was more competition in the fibre market, what is the CA doing to make it
>>>> so that we have more competition in that area? It's concerning that
>>>> Safaricom seems to only option for home connections in several places
>>>>
>>>> Determined by the market and economic forces. Just the other day,
>>>> Safaricom was not in the home fibre market. What they have provided are
>>>> more options for consumers. Numbers are stubborn facts. Fixed data
>>>> subscription is as follows: Data source CA, July -September 2020 period,
>>>> page 19
>>>> https://ca.go.ke/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Sector-Statistics-Report-Q1-2020-2021.pdf
>>>>
>>>> Safaricom PLC 229,406 subscribers, 35.6% market share
>>>>
>>>> Wananchi Group (Kenya) Ltd* 202,237 subscribers , 31.4 35.6% market
>>>> share
>>>>
>>>> Jamii Telecommunications Ltd 127,914 subscribers , 19.8 Poa % market
>>>> share
>>>>
>>>> Internet Kenya Ltd 56,824 subscribers ,8.8% market share
>>>>
>>>> Mawingu Networks Ltd 11,087 subscribers, 1.7 % market share
>>>>
>>>> Internet Solutions Kenya Ltd 9,228 subscribers, 1.4 % market share
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Consumers are speaking with their wallets.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As a policy discussion list, probably what we should be asking is what
>>>> is the fair cost for certain broadband packages, and whether there is
>>>> anything that can be really unlimited. Wearing my competent network
>>>> engineer hat, I can tell you even at Safaricom, they don't have unlimited
>>>> bandwidth. Bandwidth is a limited resource to the extent of the network
>>>> devices, network media, and cost of acquiring and delivering that bandwidth
>>>> to your edge device.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards
>>>>
>>>> ______________________
>>>> Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya
>>>>
>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/mwendwa-kivuva
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>>>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>>
>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
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>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>
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>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Barrack Otieno*
>> *Trustee*
>> *Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTAnet)*
>> *Skype:barrack.otieno*
>> *+254721325277*
>>
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>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
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>>
>
>
> --
> Josiah Mugambi
> _______________________________________________
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>
> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>
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