[kictanet] Day 1 Discussions: Digital Hailing Services Regulations

Tue Feb 11 09:11:18 EAT 2020

Thank you Kivuva and Arya for your additional contributions.

@kivuva, You raise a very valid point.  Carpooling was the initial idea of
uber and the car owner business model was the unintended outcome, offering
people alternative income,  and shifted a big part of the traditional taxi
industry to digitally hailed taxis. Current situation is that people took
loans to own cars and are working day and night just like any other taxi
guy.  So how can we make the carpooling idea work for Kenya to ease out the
traffic?

@listers,  this thread is still open.  Feel free to jump in the discussions
even as we go into the day 2 topic.

Happy holiday!

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 22:06 Arya Jeipea Karijo via kictanet <
kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

> I totally agree with Ali on this last point.
>
> Kenya does not have "Public Transport" per se - we have privately provided
> public transport. We've had this messy system provide transport to the
> public until sometimes we forget there are better systems out there - we
> only recognize how messy our system is (or the lack of it) when we are in
> small European nations or some East Asian countries.
>
> NTSA like @Kieti says seem very much in this for revenue collection not
> for safety purposes or any other thing that they have stated. If it was
> safety that Matatu that plies from Prestige to Yaya with a gang of mobile
> phone thieves would have been stopped by now.
>
> I trust the Ubers and the Bolts to ensure safety because it is part of the
> offering that will keep their revenues alive.
>
> I think government regulatory bodies should take more of a think-tank
> approach where they set a broad set of standards for compliance for any
> private company that is providing transport services. So that whether I am
> doing Safe Boda or Uber or NTVRS or Transline or a TUK Tuk in Mombasa I
> know there is a limit of time to when myself/my drivers have to be on the
> wheel... I know there is data I have to collect to comply with safety
> requirements... I know that there is tax or other levy contribution I need
> to make to keep the roads usable...
>
> Such compliance standards should be so general they won't have to change
> them when Kenya/Nairobi has trams or has a metro (powered by wind energy
> from Ngong hills)
> This circus of "Tutatoa pesa wapi?"  then someone says "Na hawa akina Uber
> hawawezi toka kitu?" is too much and has to end.
>
> With kind regards
>
>
> Jeipea
>
> Believe in yourself then you can change your world
>
> ____________________________________________
> Skype: john.paul.em
> Cell: +254735586956
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 12:10 PM Ali Hussein via kictanet <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
>> The thing that these proposed Regulation is overlooking is the
>> overarching need for a complete overhaul of our Public Transport System.
>> Any mass transit system in the world cannot be left to the vagaries of the
>> profit motive alone. This is where the rain started beating us down. When
>> we killed Kenya Bus Services and allowed the matatu menace to run roughshod
>> over us.
>>
>> These new proposed regulations continue to perpetuate silo thinking not
>> just in govt but in the private sector too.
>>
>> Time ya kuamka. Masaa ina enda..
>>
>> *Ali Hussein*
>> +254 0713 601113
>>
>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>>
>> Skype: abu-jomo
>>
>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>>
>> "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
>> habit."  ~ Aristotle
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On 10 Feb 2020, at 11:40 AM, Liz Orembo via kictanet <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>   Thank you Ali, Kieti and Bill.
>>
>> @Ali Hussein <ali at hussein.me.ke>  Indeed, we should regulate to grow the
>> sector, not to kill it. From the public participation, it looks like vitu
>> kwa ground is confusion/chaotic. The digital hailing service operators have
>> not been engaging car owners and the government.
>>
>> These regulations have also capped commission. The operators are supposed
>> to charge commission to a cap of 15%. to protect the drivers from the
>> effects of competition between the companies. A question though; how did
>> the NTSA arrive at this percentage? Is it fair to cap profits? What are the
>> effects in the industry?
>>
>> @kieti you raise very valid points. Taxing the vehicle owners and drivers
>> might not be timely. How about the multinationals? Because not imposing tax
>> on them also exposes local companies which are already paying taxes to
>> unfair competition.
>>
>> @Bill Dian <billdian732 at gmail.com>, ill through these questions to
>> fellow listers.
>>
>> 1.What does the Kenyan law say on employees and independent
>> contractors,with the disruption of traditional employment models?
>>
>> 2 The new regulations require digital service operators to operate under
>> Kenya laws,does Labor Laws apply?drivers have in the past complained of
>> lack of representation when deactivated,lack of consultations on price
>> fixing e.t.c?
>>
>> 3.What effect does the regulations have on Data protection,specifically
>> data retention .For instance,the regulations require operators to maintain
>> personal data for period of 3 years,will the operators be required to
>> obtain authorization from Data Commissioner,since they are Data controllers
>> and data processors?
>>
>> 4.What effect does the new regulations have on the model of the gig
>> economy?Does it rip off the independence and flexibility characterised by
>> the gig economy?
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 11:26 AM John Kieti <jkieti at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> From the apparent justifications for the regulations, I think some
>>> issues are being conflated, unfortunately. I am thinking at least 3 issues
>>> exist and could be dealt with separately.
>>>
>>> 1. *Accidents and crime *- Might it help to broaden the regulations to
>>> cover normal offline taxis. If anything digital taxi-hailing provides
>>> increased possibility for passenger safety than normal taxis. It seems
>>> pointless to provide a fix for what is not really broken.
>>> 2.* Owners / Drivers / Operator feuding on commercials* -  These
>>> ideally should be maintained as commercial leasing agreements (drivers with
>>> owners) and marketing service agreements (Drivers with operators). The
>>> employer-employee narrative misses the point on the platform economy where
>>> actors should be considered autonomous and responsive to the market forces.
>>> 3. *Tax evasion and revenue collection - *This seems to be the main
>>> thrust of the regulations. To check on tax evasion by operators - Uber,
>>> Bolt, etc is welcome and timely. Legal technicalities on tax avoidance will
>>> remain. To squeeze out more taxes and fees from drivers and vehicle owners
>>> is fair - not sure about timely - If it were me, I would let the gig
>>> economy grow roots first, for a couple more years.
>>>
>>> Kind regards
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 9:10 AM Liz Orembo via kictanet <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Good morning listers,
>>>>
>>>> Today we will talk about Digital Hailing Services Regulations and the
>>>> licensing of the Service Operators under part 1 of the regulations.
>>>>
>>>> Looking at the document, it seems like the NTSA is trying to regulate
>>>> the industry following the recent incidents that have come up: eg
>>>> accidents, assisted crimes and digital taxi drivers woes. These regulations
>>>> will require any digital hailing services; Uber, Bolt, and Swivl, to
>>>> register in Kenya and operate under the Kenyan laws. They will also obtain
>>>> operating licences from the NTSA.
>>>>
>>>> We would like to hear your views on this:
>>>>
>>>> a. Are the regulations necessary?
>>>> b. Is NTSA the right/best body to regulate Digital Hailing Transport
>>>> Services?
>>>> c. What are the likely impacts in the transport industry, Information
>>>> Society Sector and gig economy? etc
>>>> d. Should multinationals be subjected to different licensing
>>>> requirements?
>>>>
>>>> Here are some resources to guide our discussions.
>>>> 1. Bolt, uber among taxi apps ordered to get licences or get off road.
>>>> https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2020-02-04-uber-bolt-among-taxi-apps-ordered-to-get-licences-or-get-off-road/
>>>> 2. Can California reign tech-gig platforms? A primer on the bold state
>>>> law that will try.
>>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/01/14/can-california-reign-techs-gig-platforms-primer-bold-state-law-that-will-try/
>>>>
>>>> Over to you listers.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Best regards.
>>>> Liz.
>>>>
>>>> PGP ID: 0x1F3488BF
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>>>>
>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> John Kieti
>>> Phone: +254-735-764242 // +254-722-764242
>>> Twitter: @johnKieti <https://twitter.com/johnkieti> // Skype:  jkieti
>>> Blog: gmeltdown.com <http://www.gmeltdown.com> // LinkedIn:
>>> https://ke.linkedin.com/in/*kieti* <https://ke.linkedin.com/in/kieti>
>>>
>>> The ordinary just won't do
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Best regards.
>> Liz.
>>
>> PGP ID: 0x1F3488BF
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>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kictanet mailing list
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>>
>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>
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> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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