[kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
Edwin Onyango Owino
edowino at gmail.com
Wed May 2 17:11:52 EAT 2018
There are multiple facets to this issue in my opinion, censorship and the
values being 'promoted'. I think they can be handled separately.
The most common supporting argument I've heard being advanced for the
banning of the film is "it is promoting the wrong values to our children".
This immediately reveals the major failing by the parents. If you think
something is wrong, talk frankly with your children about it. The egotistic
Ezekiel Mutua cannot be given the responsibility of 'parenting' the
children. Most parents just don't want to discuss anything relating to sex
with their children and quietly hope that the children will not be able to
see that which is banned.
Now, on the matter of values, were there same sex relationships in the
past? Yes, but the nature of those relationships what their proponents are
claiming them to be? Absolutely not. Another common slogan is
"homosexuality is not unAfrican, homophobia is". This is usually a
patronizing comment that claims that we were all fine & dandy with
homosexuality before the colonialists & their religion frowned upon the
practice and banned it through their laws. There are a lot of practices
that the colonialists frowned upon, and none of them was ever clamped down
successfully, polygamy for instance. There is no practice that attracted as
much vitriol from the colonialists than polygamy. Polygamists are still
treated like scum in the West, but the practice is still fairly common.
There are vast areas in the continent that weren't reached by the
colonialists and therefore their 'gay bashing' message never got through,
most of them frown on homosexuality.
Finally, on the bit that "what two consenting adults do is none of
anybody's business", the statement is not entirely true. Incest is banned
in the vast majority of the states & countries in the West, in that case it
doesn't matter whether you are consenting or not. Polygamy is a criminal
offense, whether the parties are consenting or not. One can defend their
position without using wishy washy arguments.
Ed
On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 4:37 PM, Eric Mugendi via kictanet <
kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> I believe we can be outraged by multiple things at once, which is why I
> find the "We have more important things to worry about" argument to be
> limiting and highly reductionist. Fine, the issue of gay rights may not
> matter to you right now where you are, but for someone somewhere it's an
> issue of their right to live and love as they please, and as such, it's
> pretty important to them. It shouldn't bother me what two consenting adults
> are doing, and indeed it doesn't. My faith is my faith, and no matter how
> much whatever these consenting adults are doing goes against it, that's
> their decision, not mine.
> For Ezekiel Mutua to use a public platform to denounce a work of art
> because it goes against 'dominant values' not only completely goes against
> freedom of expression, it assumes that after watching this film, we shall
> all abandon our lifestyles, heterosexual or otherwise, and become absorbed
> in 'gayism'. So ridiculous.
>
>
> Eric Mugendi
> about.me/mugendi
> [image: Eric Mugendi on about.me]
> <http://about.me/mugendi>
>
>
> On Tue, 1 May 2018 at 16:26, lucy gakaria via kictanet <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
>> Sidney,
>>
>> I think it is possible for us as Kenyans to concentrate on our
>> multi-faceted issues like corruption, pathetic state of our healthcare
>> system, constant strikes by public sector workers which have an adverse
>> effect on the economy etc.
>>
>> But to a limited extent Walu is also right, we have so many problems or
>> so many Goliath's to slay in this country that the LGBT issue looks like a
>> western problem.
>>
>> If it’s human rights violations e.g Miguna and utter disobedience by the
>> Government of court orders, I see where Walu is going by saying honestly we
>> have bigger issues to fry than LGBT rights.
>> We have deeper human rights issues than LGBT problem, how many times are
>> people arrested in this country without knowing the reason why, driven
>> round in circles in different police stations and not allowed to contact
>> their next of kin or a lawyer. Police human right violations still continue
>> unabated.
>> To me if there is a scale, LGBT issues honestly are the least of our
>> problems right now.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Lucy.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Apr 30, 2018, at 20:07, Sidney Ochieng via kictanet <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>
>> Walu,
>> You've got to be kidding me *"If these foreign agents could divert some
>> of that pressure/money into helping us sort out our corruption issues" *is,
>> and I'm going to put it bluntly here, patent nonsense. More money is spent
>> on fight corruption than a lot of other causes. Name, from the top of your
>> head even 5 institutions that have managed to bring LGBTI issues to the
>> forefront for national conversation. In fact almost every time this
>> conversation happens in Kenya it's because the government is banning
>> something. So maybe you need to talk the Kenyans artists who feel that
>> these stories need to be told.
>>
>> No one is forcing anything. You don't have to watch this movie or any
>> other material that covers these issues.
>>
>> This thing of saying that we have more important issues is disingenuous,
>> it's the same thing our president keeps doing in telling us to focus on
>> development instead of corruption, hunger and education. We as a nation are
>> not stupid or one dimensional, we can doing several things at once; you
>> know like care that someone is dying of hunger, that someone else is being
>> discriminated against and that internet access is still too expensive in
>> this country;)
>>
>> On 30 April 2018 at 19:13, Walubengo J via kictanet <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>
>>> Spot on Twahir,
>>>
>>> Whereas we should not interfere in what two consenting adults want to
>>> do in whatever form and manner, I just have a problem when it is forced
>>> down our thrown by mainly foreign money/masters.
>>>
>>> If these foreign agents could divert some of that pressure/money into
>>> helping us sort out our corruption issues, we probably will solve our basic
>>> issues (health, food, employment, infrastructure, etc) within 5yrs and be
>>> in better position to buy into what is clearly '1st-world' issues.
>>>
>>> As our President told Obama and keeps reminding the western folks, this
>>> LGBTx-y-z-etc (abbreviations seem to be growing faster than I can
>>> interprate them) is someone else's priority; but for some reason, that
>>> someone seems to feel better if it becomes our priority.
>>>
>>> Common, I have not had food in 2days and your are trying to tell me what
>>> LGBT-whatever is? Dont you think it is easier to have that discussion after
>>> my basics issues have been sorted?
>>>
>>> I do appreciate that from a legal point of view, Ezekiel Mutua may not
>>> win the fight and even if he won, I am sure the movie is /will be online
>>> soon and Kenyans will view it either way. However, we must deliberately
>>> refuse the agenda to 'normalize' what is clearly someone else's normal.
>>>
>>> #We_just_have_other_priorities and deserve a break from this perpetual
>>> arm twisting.
>>>
>>> walu.
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 30, 2018, 6:32:09 PM GMT+3, Twahir Hussein Kassim via
>>> kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my
>>> *thoughts* below within the text of the constitution copied from a
>>> previous email
>>>
>>> CONSTITUTION OF KENYA
>>>
>>> PREAMBLE
>>> ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation:
>>>
>>> *My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that
>>> the supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any
>>> religion that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the
>>> scripts we will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act.
>>> Whether Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. *
>>>
>>> HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice
>>> to our land:
>>>
>>> PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined
>>> to live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation:
>>>
>>> *Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this
>>> act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however
>>> NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did
>>> interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their
>>> trade. This only started when the west started pushing.*
>>>
>>> *There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys!*
>>>
>>> RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to
>>> sustain it for the benefit of future generations:
>>>
>>> COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual,
>>> the family, communities and the nation:
>>>
>>> RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on
>>> the essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social
>>> justice and the rule of law:
>>>
>>> * If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult
>>> who chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live?*
>>>
>>> *Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the
>>> generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a
>>> people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very
>>> supreme being that we claim to acknowledge!*
>>>
>>> EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of
>>> governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of
>>> this Constitution:
>>>
>>> ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future
>>> generations.
>>>
>>> GOD BLESS KENYA
>>>
>>> *These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. *
>>>
>>> *Twahir*
>>>
>>> On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>
>>> @Alex
>>>
>>> I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is
>>> subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay
>>> and
>>> right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be
>>> immoral
>>> depending on one's beliefs.
>>>
>>> The board has also given the reasons behind the ban.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Alex Comninos
>>> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM
>>> To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>>> Cc: ldinga at managecom.co.ke
>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
>>>
>>> @Lawrence
>>>
>>> Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue?
>>>
>>> Please explain?
>>>
>>> There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the
>>> sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything?
>>>
>>> So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you
>>> could back that up without resorting to the first testament.
>>>
>>> Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends
>>> and
>>> their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something,
>>> contact me.
>>>
>>> Kindly,
>>> Alex
>>> On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree,
>>> morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
>>>
>>> > Regards
>>>
>>> > From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet
>>> > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM
>>> > To: ldinga at managecom.co.ke
>>> > Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva
>>> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
>>>
>>> > KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal
>>> threshold.
>>>
>>> > And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who
>>> believe in different deities.
>>>
>>> > Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution
>>> recognises freedom of worship.
>>>
>>> > Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
>>>
>>> > 32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
>>>
>>> > (1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion,
>>> thought, belief and opinion.
>>>
>>> > (2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community
>>> with
>>> others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief
>>> through
>>> worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day
>>> of
>>> worship.
>>>
>>> > (3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or
>>> facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief
>>> or
>>> religion.
>>>
>>> > (4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that
>>> is
>>> contrary to the person's belief or religion.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>
>>> >> Does Kenya have a state religion?
>>>
>>> >> On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP
>>> via
>>> kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke on
>>> behalf of kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>
>>> >> Dear Alex,
>>>
>>> >> I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism
>>> then
>>> it is
>>> >> immoral and ungodly.
>>> >> God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
>>>
>>> >> Leviticus 18:22
>>> >> You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an
>>> abomination.
>>>
>>> >> Genesis 2:24
>>> >> Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold
>>> fast
>>> to his
>>> >> wife, and they shall become one flesh.
>>>
>>> >> Regards
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>> >> From: Alex Comninos via kictanet
>>> >> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM
>>> >> To: ldinga at managecom.co.ke
>>> >> Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>>> >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
>>>
>>> >> I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the
>>> main
>>> >> storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
>>> film to
>>> >> be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere
>>> there on
>>> the
>>> >> 8th of May.
>>>
>>> >> Here is the trailer for the film
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU
>>>
>>>
>>> >> On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni at gmail.com
>>> >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >> > What is the film about?
>>>
>>> >> > On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet <
>>> >> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>
>>> >> >> Hi
>>>
>>> >> >> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
>>> banned an
>>> >> >> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>>>
>>> >> >> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it
>>> was
>>> >> reversed
>>> >> >> by the courts.
>>>
>>> >> >> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>>>
>>> >> >> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>>>
>>> >> >> Kind regards,
>>> >> >> Alex
>>>
>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
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>>> >> --
>>> >> ...
>>> >> Alex Comninos
>>>
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>>> policy
>>> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the
>>> ICT
>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
>>> development.
>>>
>>> >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
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>>> >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
>>> platform
>>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
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>>> > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
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>>> comninos%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
>>> development.
>>>
>>> > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
>>> bandwidth,
>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ...
>>> Alex Comninos
>>> http://comninos.org
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> kictanet mailing list
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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>>>
>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/
>>> mailman/options/kictanet/twahir%40hussein.me.ke
>>>
>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>
>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> kictanet mailing list
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
>>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
>>> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/
>>> mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com
>>>
>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>
>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> kictanet mailing list
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
>>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
>>> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/
>>> mailman/options/kictanet/sidney.ochieng%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>
>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Sidney
>>
>> *Twitter:* @princelySid <https://twitter.com/princelySid> | *Web: *s
>> idneyochieng.co.ke
>> *Skype: *sidney.ochieng | *Github:* princelySid
>> <https://github.com/princelySid>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kictanet mailing list
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
>> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
>>
>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/
>> mailman/options/kictanet/rgakaria%40yahoo.com
>>
>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kictanet mailing list
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
>> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
>>
>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/
>> mailman/options/kictanet/emugendi%40gmail.com
>>
>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kictanet mailing list
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
>
> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/
> mailman/options/kictanet/edowino%40gmail.com
>
> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>
>
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