[kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
S.M. Muraya
murigi.muraya at gmail.com
Mon Apr 30 23:01:06 EAT 2018
Ebele,
As mentioned by others, there is a supposition of no State Religion..
Article 8 of the conflicted 2010 Kenya Constitution.
Here is a Christian fundamental.. (stated in 3 different ways)
(i) Christianity is not a Theocracy - John 6:15.
(ii) Christ does not reign in a corrupt people/world which rejects him.
John 18:36
(iii) Christ rules only over those who believe in and follow him. Luke 17:21
As such, Christendom (actual practitioners of Christianity) in Kenya
opposed the entrenchment of any one religion in the 2010 constitution.
Sodomy supporters and polygamists (generally opposed to sodomy and
Christianity) united in attacking Christianity in Kenya.
https://www.nation.co.ke/oped/opinion/Why-the-No-campaign-
could-destroy-the-Church-/440808-914652-q0rigu/index.html
Articles 24 (4) and 170 are in direct conflict with Article 27. Article 170
creates positions which can only be occupied by males of one particular
religion.
https://berkleycenter.georgetown.edu/quotes/constitution-of-kenya-article-24-limitation-of-rights-and-fundamental-freedoms
http://www.klrc.go.ke/index.php/constitution-of-kenya/112-chapter-four-the-bill-of-rights/part-2-rights-and-fundamental-freedoms/193-27-equality-and-freedom-from-discrimination
Neither polygamy nor sodomy introduced literacy or modern health care in
Africa. It was Christian missions.
Christianity (do to others as you would have them do you) is as "foreign",
as Africans posting on Facebook pages.
African communications were historically and primarily ORAL not written :)
If Facebook pitched initially pitched itself as an LGBT network would it be
as massive as it is today?
Is it not true, some developed nations are paying their citizens to
procreate? How does sodomy promote their survival?
When do you hear of decent procreating couples (spouses) complaining they
have been rejected at some Gay Club?
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 8:24 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet <
kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> In Igbo culture, the wives would be impregnated by men, (usually married
> men) but would live as wives, in every sense of the word, with their
> husband wife. Same way current same sex marriages get sperm donors, but
> with less technology. ;-) Not sure how you can confirm, without having
> installed yourself in all of those beds/mats/huts across all of those
> ethnic groups, across all of those centuries, across the Continent, that
> there was no sex.
>
> It’s actually amusing the lengths we go to pretend same sex relationships
> aren’t “African”. Have a look at the articles sent previously-they are eye
> opening.
>
> But I’m happy to move this conversation off of the list-look forward to
> seeing many of you Wednesday!
>
> On Apr 30, 2018, at 6:07 PM, Twahir Hussein Kassim <twahir at hussein.me.ke>
> wrote:
>
> Ebele,
>
> Thanks for the insight into Igbo cultures and traditions. Here too amongst
> the Miji Kenda tribes we have had those traditions of female husbands BUT
> as you rightly stated it was for the purpose of getting children; we had a
> saying as we were growing up "Amenunua kitabu asomewe" literally translated
> means "she has bought a book to be read by others!". It is a biological
> impossibility for a woman to impregnate another woman! It was understood
> that such relationships weren't of a sexual nature rather a symbiotic
> relation. There was nothing *gay* in the sense we understand it now.
>
> Twahir
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 16:17 Ebele Okobi <ebeleokobi at fb.com> wrote:
>
>> Is Christianity, brought to Kenya by colonizers, “Kenyan culture”? How
>> so?
>>
>> If so, doesn’t saying that it is mean that culture evolves, since Kenyan
>> culture predates the introduction of Christianity by millennia?
>>
>> If culture evolves, then what does it mean to say something is not part
>> of one’s culture?
>>
>> Finally-I’m not Kenyan. I’m Igbo, from south eastern Nigeria. Igbos had,
>> prior to colonization, thousands of years of culture, worshipping many
>> gods. One commonly accepted practice was women husbands-same sex marriage,
>> in which women could take other women as wives, and those wives would bear
>> children for their women husbands.
>>
>> The British were repulsed by this, and after they brought their religion
>> (plus the slave trade, the disenfranchisement of women, the attempt to
>> destroy the system of republican democracy that had operated in Igboland
>> for centuries) they banned such relationships. after this, we can now have
>> people who say same sex marriage is against Igbo culture.
>>
>> The theft of cultural knowledge is truly a crime without end.
>>
>>
>> On Apr 30, 2018, at 2:02 PM, Twahir Hussein Kassim via kictanet <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>
>> Reading from the preamble to the constitution, I would like to give my
>> *thoughts* below within the text of the constitution copied from a
>> previous email
>>
>> CONSTITUTION OF KENYA
>>
>> PREAMBLE
>> ACKNOWLEDGING the supremacy of the Almighty God of all creation:
>>
>> *My belief is that this is a declaration within the constitution that the
>> supremacy of The Almighty is ABOVE ALL. I doubt if there is any religion
>> that accepts LGBT relationships to be fine. Going back to the scripts we
>> will NOTE a whole nation being destroyed due to this very act. Whether
>> Kenya has a state religion or not GAY relations shouldn't be ok. *
>>
>> HONOURING those who heroically struggled to bring freedom and justice to
>> our land:
>>
>> PROUD of our ethnic, cultural and religious diversity, and determined to
>> live in peace and unity as one indivisible sovereign nation:
>>
>> *Proud of ethnic diversity, none of our diverse culture agree with this
>> act. Am not refuting that it has been practised for donkey years; however
>> NEVER has it been FORCED DOWN our throats to accept it as a norm. We did
>> interact with gays before but they were not openly blatantly plying their
>> trade. This only started when the west started pushing.*
>>
>> *There is a LINE we as a people MUST DRAW! Come on guys!*
>>
>> RESPECTFUL of the environment, which is our heritage, and determined to
>> sustain it for the benefit of future generations:
>>
>> COMMITTED to nurturing and protecting the well-being of the individual,
>> the family, communities and the nation:
>>
>> RECOGNISING the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on the
>> essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social
>> justice and the rule of law:
>>
>> * If we play the HUMAN RIGHT card, then why arrest a consenting adult who
>> chooses to commit suicide? Isn't it his right to live?*
>>
>> *Freedom comes with responsibility and most of all we OWE it to the
>> generations to come to maintain a MORAL FABRIC that reflects us as a
>> people! LGBT doesn't stand the test of morality if it goes against the very
>> supreme being that we claim to acknowledge!*
>>
>> EXERCISING our sovereign and inalienable right to determine the form of
>> governance of our country and having participated fully in the making of
>> this Constitution:
>>
>> ADOPT, ENACT and give this Constitution to ourselves and to our future
>> generations.
>>
>> GOD BLESS KENYA
>>
>> *These are my opinions, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. *
>>
>> *Twahir*
>>
>> On Apr 30, 2018 15:26, "Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet" <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>
>> @Alex
>>
>> I am open to any introduction and as I said the issue of morality is
>> subjective and conscience based. You may see gay relationship as okay and
>> right from your perspective. However, to another person, it may be
>> immoral
>> depending on one's beliefs.
>>
>> The board has also given the reasons behind the ban.
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Alex Comninos
>> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 3:09 PM
>> To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>> Cc: ldinga at managecom.co.ke
>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
>>
>> @Lawrence
>>
>> Why is love between two consenting non-abusive people a morality issue?
>>
>> Please explain?
>>
>> There are many issues of morality in relationships, but what does the
>> sexual orientation of the partners have to do with anything?
>>
>> So basically you are saying being gay is immoral, it would be nice if you
>> could back that up without resorting to the first testament.
>>
>> Once again, I am more than willing to introduce you to my LGBT friends and
>> their morality. If you would like to be introduced and learn something,
>> contact me.
>>
>> Kindly,
>> Alex
>> On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 14:05, Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via kictanet <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>
>> > Religion a side I think this is an issue of morality but I agree,
>> morality can be subjective and depends on one’s conscience.
>>
>> > Regards
>>
>> > From: Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet
>> > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:50 PM
>> > To: ldinga at managecom.co.ke
>> > Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva
>> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
>>
>> > KFCB always makes roadside pronouncements that would not pass any legal
>> threshold.
>>
>> > And quoting the Bible here is imposing your religion on others who
>> believe in different deities.
>>
>> > Ebele, No, there is no State religion in Kenya, and our constitution
>> recognises freedom of worship.
>>
>> > Article 32 of Kenyan Constitution:
>>
>> > 32. FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE, RELIGION, BELIEF AND OPINION
>>
>> > (1) Every person has the right to freedom of conscience, religion,
>> thought, belief and opinion.
>>
>> > (2) Every person has the right, either individually or in community with
>> others, in public or in private, to manifest any religion or belief
>> through
>> worship, practice, teaching or observance, including observance of a day
>> of
>> worship.
>>
>> > (3) A person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or
>> facility, or the enjoyment of any right, because of the person's belief or
>> religion.
>>
>> > (4) A person shall not be compelled to act, or engage in any act, that
>> is
>> contrary to the person's belief or religion.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:36 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>
>> >> Does Kenya have a state religion?
>>
>> >> On 4/30/18, 12:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Lawrence Dinga, CISSP via
>> kictanet" <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke on
>> behalf of kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>
>> >> Dear Alex,
>>
>> >> I don’t know much about the movie but if it is about lesbianism
>> then
>> it is
>> >> immoral and ungodly.
>> >> God only approves a relation between a man and a woman
>>
>> >> Leviticus 18:22
>> >> You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an
>> abomination.
>>
>> >> Genesis 2:24
>> >> Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold
>> fast
>> to his
>> >> wife, and they shall become one flesh.
>>
>> >> Regards
>>
>>
>>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Alex Comninos via kictanet
>> >> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 2:05 PM
>> >> To: ldinga at managecom.co.ke
>> >> Cc: Alex Comninos ; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>> >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Banning of the FILM Rafiki
>>
>> >> I am not sure what the film is about in its entirety, but the main
>> >> storyline is a lesbian romance in Nairobi. It is the first Kenyan
>> film to
>> >> be nominated for the Cannes film festival and will premiere there
>> on
>> the
>> >> 8th of May.
>>
>> >> Here is the trailer for the film
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M_-ucSaFpU
>>
>>
>> >> On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 12:57, Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >> > What is the film about?
>>
>> >> > On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 1:55 PM Alex Comninos via kictanet <
>> >> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>
>> >> >> Hi
>>
>> >> >> I was shocked to learn that the film classification board has
>> banned an
>> >> >> LGBT film, Rafiki.
>>
>> >> >> Our Film and Publication Board recently attempted this but it
>> was
>> >> reversed
>> >> >> by the courts.
>>
>> >> >> Films are ICTs and we should be discussing this on the list.
>>
>> >> >> I am looking forward to the discussion.
>>
>> >> >> Kind regards,
>> >> >> Alex
>>
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>>
>> > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
>> development.
>>
>> > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>
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>>
>> > Unsubscribe or change your options at
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>> comninos%40gmail.com
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.or.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_alex.comninos-2540gmail.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=lEmZ6eqzQeeVBgrhN7SA6sMu7HuwajuPExQgvOYP8L8&s=r_gHpGlmd9zp7LaxfXi1aUpkmUfdR8Q_NjQTNrge12c&e=>
>>
>> > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
>> development.
>>
>> > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ...
>> Alex Comninos
>> http://comninos.org
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__comninos.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=lEmZ6eqzQeeVBgrhN7SA6sMu7HuwajuPExQgvOYP8L8&s=LT5O7_ZxuPdrrj4qPTNyfZ5exROcfcney_KeryDXz3Q&e=>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/
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>>
>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kictanet mailing list
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
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>> xwegTDmEzU-q-nS-0oq2-eQ&e=
>>
>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> kictanet mailing list
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
> Domain Registration sponsored by www.eacdirectory.co.ke
>
> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/
> mailman/options/kictanet/murigi.muraya%40gmail.com
>
> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>
>
--
SMM
*"Better a patient person than a warrior, one with self-control than one
who takes a city." Prov 16:32*
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