[kictanet] The case for and against #deletefacebook

Tue Apr 10 11:28:42 EAT 2018

Ebele,
Can you explain clearly what's going on here? https://mobile.nation.co.ke/business/Facebook-deepens-consumer-data-mining-in-Kenya-/1950106-4379966-gsmf4x/index.html
________________________________
From: kictanet <kictanet-bounces+lnjogu=hotmail.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke> on behalf of Ebele Okobi via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2018 5:05:13 PM
To: lnjogu at hotmail.com
Cc: Ebele Okobi
Subject: Re: [kictanet] The case for and against #deletefacebook

So now that you know how our business works, are you still struggling to believe that data is not sold? We do not sell data, we sell advertising. And we have not been accused of selling data in this case. In this case, an academic used data that Facebook users directly gave him access to, and passed it on to Cambridge Analytica, against our rules. We did not sell anyone anything, the data was passed from the users to the app developer/academic by the user granting permission. That said-we changed the ability of developers to have that kind of access by 2015, and as you can see, we have designed and implemented a whole host of privacy controls since then.

In terms of believing whether your data is secure-given the number of Facebook users, and the amount of data we hold, and looking at the multiple global issues related to data-we, in truth, have first in class mechanisms for protecting user data, and we consistently learn and iterate from our mistakes. That said-as Mark said, we recognize that trust is built by actions, and once lost it must be built back up. Only you can decide what makes sense for you when you use (or decide not to use) Facebook or any of the thousands of websites, platforms, apps, services with which you undoubtedly interact every day.

On Mar 28, 2018, at 9:43 PM, Tracy Kadesa via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:

@Kivuva yes, your answer does explain well!

@Ebele  "Which part are you struggling to believe? That it is securely stored or that it is not sold? "
                Answer: Both

Regards

Tracy Kadesa,
LL.B ,University of Nairobi.
Dip KSL
tracykadesa.wordpress.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__tracykadesa.wordpress.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=uDmtWJInn8IIWxlGbLGzt1S7_jj8Rq2_9O9Hr1SjeUg&s=pM-d_UsYc5oJME5WUfkkPL3-BsYR8HQDSeCHtqm545k&e=>
legalwalk.wordpress.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__legalwalk.wordpress.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=uDmtWJInn8IIWxlGbLGzt1S7_jj8Rq2_9O9Hr1SjeUg&s=1uhrfyUruCF2ODjhlwUu0fFTRDEOMR_ZiFYf_l9ihj8&e=>

On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 10:24 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
Tracy, I'm not holding brief for FB, but I understand your question.

The main business model for FB is advertisement. If you have ever advertised on the platform, you would understand the need to build profiles. So for example, if you are selling ladies handbags, and diapers, you would tell FB to show the bags to [ladies], in [Kenya], aged between [21 to 50]. If you cannot deliver to Turkana, you can say, [living in Nairobi, or Mombasa]. For the diapers, you would tell FB to show the advertisement to [ladies] between [22 and 40] living in suburban areas. This is the same for Google too.

In my FB profile, I never see these types of adverts because FB already has a profile about me, but the ladies within my household see these adverts.

Since you are probably billed per view, or per click, it is more value for the advertiser to TARGET the advertisement to the right audience, otherwise you will loose your advertising capital showing irrelevant advertisement to those in Turkana.

I hope this helps.

On Mar 28, 2018 8:03 PM, "Tracy Kadesa" <kadesatracy at gmail.com<mailto:kadesatracy at gmail.com>> wrote:
Dear Ebele

With what's going on right now, I am struggling to believe this statement  "Your information is securely stored and we do not sell this information to third parties. You are always in control of the information you share with Facebook." And why would fb collect all this info anyway if it wasn't planning to make use of it! what is the rationale?

Regards

Tracy Kadesa,
LL.B ,University of Nairobi.
Dip KSL
tracykadesa.wordpress.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__tracykadesa.wordpress.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=uDmtWJInn8IIWxlGbLGzt1S7_jj8Rq2_9O9Hr1SjeUg&s=pM-d_UsYc5oJME5WUfkkPL3-BsYR8HQDSeCHtqm545k&e=>
legalwalk.wordpress.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__legalwalk.wordpress.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=uDmtWJInn8IIWxlGbLGzt1S7_jj8Rq2_9O9Hr1SjeUg&s=1uhrfyUruCF2ODjhlwUu0fFTRDEOMR_ZiFYf_l9ihj8&e=>

On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 6:46 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
As Ali has put it before, it's really refreshing seeing that we can get first level support, and feedback from Facebook. This really is the advantage of having an ecosystem of engagement which KICTANET provides. It's refreshing bigly :-)

On Wed, Mar 28, 2018, 6:06 PM Ebele Okobi via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:
Yes-those have been in the works for months, to be launched this week. The news has understandably overshadowed these announcements. That said-stay tuned for more details.

On Mar 28, 2018, at 3:59 PM, Ngigi Waithaka <ngigi at at.co.ke<mailto:ngigi at at.co.ke>> wrote:

Just seen this as well...

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-03-28/facebook-updates-privacy-tools-for-better-data-control?__twitter_impression=true<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.bloomberg.com_amp_news_articles_2018-2D03-2D28_facebook-2Dupdates-2Dprivacy-2Dtools-2Dfor-2Dbetter-2Ddata-2Dcontrol-3F-5F-5Ftwitter-5Fimpression-3Dtrue&d=DwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=Xzm9uwGN_kyJwCb9iCxi8xO8-rt6b-PqkQf_7ykb3CU&s=LRebF_k8lIuXqpJG14v8KR23D85FImQTIQesG1JwMHA&e=>

Rgds

On Wed, 28 Mar 2018, 12:31 Ngigi Waithaka, <ngigi at at.co.ke<mailto:ngigi at at.co.ke>> wrote:
Ebele,

If that's the case, then I guess what they do is get a 'screenshot' of your photo and maybe *overlay* it on your newsfeed / timeline. The *impression* it gives you is that the photo is already uploaded...

Thanks...

On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 12:18 PM, Ebele Okobi <ebeleokobi at fb.com<mailto:ebeleokobi at fb.com>> wrote:

Clarification-your photos are not auto-uploaded to Facebook. The app has access to your photos and essentially shows you your own photo folder and asks if you want to upload. Your pictures do not get uploaded to Facebook until you upload them yourself.

I do think it’s a good piece of feedback for our product teams to know that a) this feature is confusing to you, and b) that showing users their photos and asking if they want to upload can be off-putting/not a good experience.

Best,
Ebele

On Mar 28, 2018, at 10:11 AM, Ngigi Waithaka <ngigi at at.co.ke<mailto:ngigi at at.co.ke>> wrote:

Ebele,

Thanks for your update, I will check on the contacts settings as you have indicated.

I still think though some of the choices we make are not very *clearly* spelt out when we make them. For instance, I can understand the need to sync my contacts, but *not* my call & sms history! And this is especially so for those of use (most of us?) who use our phones for both personal & official business.

My recommendation, have at least three settings clearly indicating what you would use them for, if at all!
1. Sync contacts
2. Sync Call records (***)
3. Sync SMS & Messages (***)

As regards the photos this is what happen(s) / happened. Normally I would not give FB access to my photos.However, at some point I needed to upload a certain specific photo on to some FB markets that I participate in.

Shortly as I was still in the market and as I was scrolling though my newsfeed I started seeing a number of family photos that I had taken earlier, already uploaded but kind of greyed out, with FB asking me whether I wanted to share them.

That is very disconcerting!

Again, if a user gives access to his photo library for a *single* photo, that should not mean *all* my photos are auto-uploaded to FB, then FB prompts me to share them...

My recommendation would be to have at least two settings:
1. Upload a single photo
2. Auto- Upload *ALL* my photos

And, I don't consider myself a *pro* FB user, it may very well be that indeed this is already covered so thanks for being our 'customer-care', appreciate :-)

Regards

On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 11:39 AM, Ebele Okobi <ebeleokobi at fb.com<mailto:ebeleokobi at fb.com>> wrote:

Hello!

Answers below-for your first question, it’s VERY important to clarify that Facebook does not “pick up” your contacts. You have to expressly agree to upload your contacts. For example, I have never agreed to this, so my contacts have never been uploaded. If you change your mind about the permission you have given, or if you accidentally gave permission, please see below for how to opt back out. Note that this feature is “opt-in”, so express agreement is required for it to be happening.

That is the same for the photographs, so can you please clarify your question? Are you saying that you granted permission for specific photos to be posted on your page, and now you want to delete them? Facebook does not automatically upload any photographs to your page.

  1.  Call and text history logging is part of an opt-in feature for people using Messenger or Facebook Lite on Android. This helps you find and stay connected with the people you care about, and provides you with a better experience across Facebook. People have to expressly agree to use this feature. If, at any time, they no longer wish to use this feature they can turn it off in settings<https://www.facebook.com/help/838237596230667>, or here<https://www.facebook.com/help/fblite/355489824655936> for Facebook Lite users, and all previously shared call and text history shared via that app is deleted. While we receive certain permissions from Android, uploading this information has always been opt-in only.

From: Ngigi Waithaka <ngigi at at.co.ke<mailto:ngigi at at.co.ke>>
Date: Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 5:37 PM
To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
Cc: Ebele Okobi <ebeleokobi at fb.com<mailto:ebeleokobi at fb.com>>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] The case for and against #deletefacebook

Ebele,

Good to see FB represented here.

Got two questions:

1. Supposing FB has picked up my contacts and SMS and I would like to delete any prior data that has been uploaded, how would I go about that?

2. I also noticed that when I allow FB contacts to my PhotoGallery on Android for purposes of being able to select pictures to upload, by default, it then would upload *all* new pictures taken and ask me whether I'd like to share them on my timeline.

Is there a way to also delete any such content that FB has picked from my phone and auto-uploaded?

Rgds

On Tue, 27 Mar 2018, 19:30 Ebele Okobi via kictanet, <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:

This is useful context, below. Please do let me know if there are additional questions or concerns. I do appreciate how significant an issue this is, and am happy to answer questions and relay concerns internally.

https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/03/fact-check-your-call-and-sms-history/

March 25, 2018

Fact Check: Your Call and SMS History

You may have seen some recent reports that Facebook has been logging people’s call and SMS (text) history without their permission.

This is not the case.

Opt-in features in Facebook Lite and Messenger

Call and text history logging is part of an opt-in feature for people using Messenger or Facebook Lite on Android. This helps you find and stay connected with the people you care about, and provides you with a better experience across Facebook. People have to expressly agree to use this feature. If, at any time, they no longer wish to use this feature they can turn it off in settings<https://www.facebook.com/help/838237596230667>, or here<https://www.facebook.com/help/fblite/355489824655936> for Facebook Lite users, and all previously shared call and text history shared via that app is deleted. While we receive certain permissions from Android, uploading this information has always been opt-in only.

We introduced this feature for Android users a couple of years ago. Contact importers are fairly common among social apps and services as a way to more easily find the people you want to connect with. This was first introduced in Messenger in 2015, and later offered as an option in Facebook Lite, a lightweight version of Facebook for Android.

How it works

When you sign up for Messenger or Facebook Lite on Android, or log into Messenger on an Android device, you are given the option to continuously upload your contacts as well as your call and text history. For Messenger, you can either turn it on, choose ‘learn more’ or ‘not now’. On Facebook Lite, the options are to turn it on or ‘skip’. If you chose to turn this feature on, we will begin to continuously log this information, which can be downloaded at any time using the Download Your Information tool<https://www.facebook.com/help/131112897028467?helpref=page_content>.

[Image removed by sender.]

If, at any point, you no longer wish to continuously upload this information, you can easily turn this feature off in your settings<https://www.facebook.com/help/838237596230667>. You can also turn off continuous call and text history logging while keeping contact uploading enabled. You can also go to this page<https://www.facebook.com/mobile/messenger/contacts/> to see which contacts you have uploaded from Messenger, and you can delete all contact information you’ve uploaded from that app should you choose.

We never sell this data, and this feature does not collect the content of your text messages or calls

When this feature is enabled, uploading your contacts also allows us to use information like when a call or text was made or received. This feature does not collect the content of your calls or text messages. Your information is securely stored and we do not sell this information to third parties. You are always in control of the information you share with Facebook.

On Mar 27, 2018, at 3:29 PM, WANGARI KABIRU via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:

Facebook harvested phone call and text data from Android users<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__bigthink.com_news_facebook-2Dhas-2Deven-2Dmore-2Dinformation-2Don-2Deverybody-2Dthan-2Dwe-2Dthought&d=DwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=cXuykyCaIJqL64MDFT1Ncv3XTYaa8_rygQByuP77tLA&s=Q0NQKZipOuYa3DG_dMSi0dcSZwBcuCwoGxtkjBJLjko&e=>

Facebook harvested phone call and text data from Android users

Brandon A. Weber

Have an Android phone or device? You might want to read this.

BIGTHINK might have thoughts similar to your said friend.

Facebook scraped call, text message data for years from Android phones [Updated]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__arstechnica.com_information-2Dtechnology_2018_03_facebook-2Dscraped-2Dcall-2Dtext-2Dmessage-2Ddata-2Dfor-2Dyears-2Dfrom-2Dandroid-2Dphones_&d=DwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=cXuykyCaIJqL64MDFT1Ncv3XTYaa8_rygQByuP77tLA&s=8leTwm8eSfOtCBxtSR8P6cIjt_GGx4UR3Tq0E0SfTTA&e=>

Facebook scraped call, text message data for years from Android phones [...

Maybe check your data archive to see if Facebook’s algorithms know who you called.

Factual or otherwise? Ars Technica makes reference to an FB rejoiner.

It should not be lost that even the most basic loyalty card is for decision making to serve you the customer better - data by the issuer.

Be blessed.

Regards/Wangari

---
Pray God Bless. 2013Wangari circa - "Being of the Light, We are Restored Through Faith in Mind, Body and Spirit; We Manifest The Kingdom of God on Earth".

On Monday, 26 March 2018, 08:52:17 GMT+3, Timothy- Coach- Oriedo via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:

See my views from a data science, business model and regulatory perspective

Data Breach? What Breach- A Watershed Moment
https://www.linkedin.com/ pulse/data-breach-what-breach- watershed-moment-big-data- scientist<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.linkedin.com_pulse_data-2Dbreach-2Dwhat-2Dbreach-2Dwatershed-2Dmoment-2Dbig-2Ddata-2Dscientist&d=DwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=cXuykyCaIJqL64MDFT1Ncv3XTYaa8_rygQByuP77tLA&s=k0_3ZTu5BNy2k1zt934oRVmAqgqcQM5E_1eXcxiFjpk&e=>

Coach Timothy Oriedo

Error! Filename not specified.timothyoriedo.coach<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__timothyoriedo.coach-3Fpromo-3Demail-5Fsig-26utm-5Fsource-3Dproduct-26utm-5Fmedium-3Demail-5Fsig-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dgmail-5Fapi&d=DwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=cXuykyCaIJqL64MDFT1Ncv3XTYaa8_rygQByuP77tLA&s=yxC70TjVB9tMv39uXnahI0ql2CzQze6wxVWGlpJ54VA&e=>

On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 8:24 AM, Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>> wrote:

Ali,

Facebook was built for and is meant for *sharing*! With time, I have seen FB make us want to share more and more, recommend to us 'friends' at every turn and inevitably there will be a clash between the sharing and our privacy!

Also, there was a time our Newsfeeds were very clean, you'd actually get to know what your friends were upto, but I do find its now looking unrecognizable; its become this very noisy marketplace! Or maybe I am gettitng old :-)

Privacy unfortunately plays 2nd fiddle to sharing. For me, the straw that broke the proverbial camels back is seeing photos that I had taken on my phone already auto-uploaded and semi-shared in my timeline, and with an absent minded click, I would have shared all on the my timeline!

I got the app off my phone immediately, but kept the web desktop as I do continue to use it once in a while.

I have also seen that FB has been collecting all our Phone records, calls + SMS as written about on Verge...
https://www.theverge.com/2018/ 3/25/17160944/facebook-call- history-sms-data-collection- android<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.theverge.com_2018_3_25_17160944_facebook-2Dcall-2Dhistory-2Dsms-2Ddata-2Dcollection-2Dandroid&d=DwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=cXuykyCaIJqL64MDFT1Ncv3XTYaa8_rygQByuP77tLA&s=BJA6pHdAXSfUjg6JVCjo5_wQb4kUWhUO9rU_WMv7gB8&e=>

So, I guess if you're still using FB on Android, you gotta be 'strong'!

P.S

Does FB and other Apps synchronize their data policies with those of the users home country?

Regards

On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 6:04 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> > wrote:

Listers

Hope you all had a great weekend. Here’s an interesting article on the ongoing Facebook fallout.

Excerpt:-

I spent the evening with a friend who is far bolder than me. Having deactivated his Facebook<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__click.email.fortune.com_-3Fqs-3D72be6926f14318baaea3a7380b00c95467207ed12354af5a388d60d1b5ede0afbdd78c249b8c1f825a3519c8563f1652ec3ff8a6232f4164&d=DwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=cXuykyCaIJqL64MDFT1Ncv3XTYaa8_rygQByuP77tLA&s=nznclOesLdBW3_L2i-L7U-A6OVh9BpxunfOkC95sp8E&e=> profile three years ago, he upped the ante this week by deleting his Instagram account. Even more drastically, he plans officially to delete his long-dormant Facebook account—the last vestige of his serfhood in Mr. Zuckerberg’s fiefdom—sometime very soon, after his girlfriend has had an opportunity to port its photos elsewhere. (He prefers offline storage.)

Read on:-

https://view.email.fortune.com /?qs=55840ef3733ec70e7bbf70681 a1fdf4ef688af63cc3bc7eef1a6466 871482204b1da0994a47ddc4eb36e5 5eca2c6a6c64c45c7cb49127419dc5 77951543699845cefb5000f8f8cbb<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__view.email.fortune.com_-3Fqs-3D55840ef3733ec70e7bbf70681a1fdf4ef688af63cc3bc7eef1a6466871482204b1da0994a47ddc4eb36e55eca2c6a6c64c45c7cb49127419dc577951543699845cefb5000f8f8cbb&d=DwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=cXuykyCaIJqL64MDFT1Ncv3XTYaa8_rygQByuP77tLA&s=MZmN-rhTGMu54DiPaOMgdPiqrFc7hiT4ICC_tBvjHPw&e=>

Regards

Ali Hussein

Principal

Hussein & Associates

+254 0713 601113

Twitter: @AliHKassim

Skype: abu-jomo

LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.c om/in/alihkassim<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ke.linkedin.com_in_alihkassim&d=DwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=cXuykyCaIJqL64MDFT1Ncv3XTYaa8_rygQByuP77tLA&s=UiDSPcQN2Ml3XDu8YsuVoX4GosqfU8Jy_vwsCzdOSxY&e=>

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit."  ~ Aristotle

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