[kictanet] Cambridge Analytica and the Kenyan Elections

Fri May 12 07:18:00 EAT 2017

Thank you John for taking time to read  the articles. As you correctly
states it's a public reading and the reasoning behind choosing that style
of narrative is so as to tap netizens such as you who would be willing to
pursue further information on the proposed methodology.

As a Digital Disruption crusader I have taken it upon myself to grow a
movement guided by the 3 pillars, Digitisation, Digital Transformation
 (DX) and Digital Reinvention. This is do at every opportunity out of the
lab to capture and sustain intrest. You are welcome at our Big Data Lab at
Mirage Plaza for a monthly meet up. Will share details in due course.

This listing is probably the most effective community to champion that and
I always love and appreciate the various informative discourses.

If you are in Mombasa I will be talking about disruption details attached.

Cheers!

Timothy Oriedo

about.me/Timoriedo

On 12 May 2017 07:00, "John Ndavula" <jndavula at gmail.com> wrote:

> Your article is an interesting read Timothy. Ideas that are at the fringes
> have a capacity to revolutionize the practice of professions like
> journalism, if the practitioners are ready and willing to embrace them.
> Thank you for taking your time to highlight that. However, as professionals
> we need to take care to explain ideas at fringes as clearly and carefully
> as we possibly can. The solution you propose lies in the sentence: "...remedy
> might be non-probability polling, in combination with algorithms and big
> data approach". Since this is public scholarship, I'm not sure the public
> would quite comprehend the solution proposed.
>
> John Ndavula
>
> On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 5:26 AM, Timothy- Coach- Oriedo via kictanet <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
>> I did this article about CA earlier in February. Just incase you missed
>> it.
>>
>>
>> http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Opinion-and-Analysis/Why-
>> data-driven-news-generation-reporting-has-come--age/539548-
>> 3810070-ry9j3e/index.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Timothy Oriedo
>>
>> about.me/Timoriedo
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11 May 2017 17:30, "Timothy- Coach- Oriedo" <timoriedo at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> http://predictiveanalytics.co.ke/articles/big-data-elections
>> -11-05-2017.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Timothy Oriedo
>>
>> about.me/Timoriedo
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11 May 2017 15:52, "Ali Hussein via kictanet" <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>
>>> Gentlemen and listers
>>>
>>> CA is just one (albeit shadowy) of the many service providers who fall
>>> under a new Technology Stack known as MarTech (Acronym for Marketing
>>> Technology). These players have deep expertise and access to minute data
>>> that they use to Hyper and Mass Target prospective customers - Be they
>>> prospects for a holiday in Seychelles, a ring for a loved one or a voter
>>> for a particular party.
>>>
>>> This is nothing new. The Tech has been around for some years now. It is
>>> just being perfected now and players CA and Majoritas
>>> <https://majoritas.com/> (who incidentally have more political wins
>>> under their belt than CA including in Ghana, Indonesia and Zambia) are just
>>> on the fringes of respectability of this new breed of Marketing
>>> Technologists.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> *Ali Hussein*
>>>
>>> *Principal*
>>>
>>> *Hussein & Associates*
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> Tel: +254 713 601113
>>>
>>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>>>
>>> Skype: abu-jomo
>>>
>>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>>> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
>>>
>>>
>>> 13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing,
>>>
>>> Chiromo Road, Westlands,
>>>
>>> Nairobi, Kenya.
>>>
>>> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely
>>> mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the
>>> organizations that I work with.
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 1:40 PM, Mutemi wa Kiama via kictanet <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Eric, some very reputable publications and big data gurus are telling
>>>> us to be wary of CA. I find your offhand dismissal of all of them very
>>>> interesting. Why, for example, would Jubilee pay so much for their
>>>> services? Throwing away money?
>>>>
>>>> Edwin Kiama
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts become things... choose the good ones!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------**Social
>>>> Justice Entrepreneur, Human Rights Defender, *
>>>> *#DevolutionIsRevolution Champion*
>>>>
>>>> *The Wanjiku Agenda Kenya Foundation (WAKenya)*Ordinary, fearless
>>>> Kenyans.
>>>> Sauti Ya Wanjiku Social Movement www.sautiyawanjiku.com
>>>> https://www.facebook.com/wanjikurevolutionkenya
>>>> https://twitter.com/WanjikuRevolt
>>>> https://plus.google.com/u/1/+WanjikuMapinduzi/posts
>>>> http://www.scribd.com/wmkenya
>>>>
>>>> "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can
>>>> change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
>>>> *~Margaret Mead*
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 9:27 PM, Eric Mwangi via kictanet <
>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> As I said the era of fake news is here and the position adopted here
>>>>> was
>>>>>
>>>>> Extract from CA
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10 May 2017, at 18:09, Ronald Ojino <ronojinx at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting times ahead indeed....The founder of Cambridge Analytica,
>>>>> Kosinski once stated that there is alot of data to mine and algorithms keep
>>>>> getting better. It would be very interesting to see if it works this time
>>>>> round...taking note that this is Kenya where our politics is not driven
>>>>> majorly by issues but other deep rooted issues like 'our man syndrome'
>>>>> etc...it may not play out as expected...lets wait and see... My worry in
>>>>> this era remains the amount of digital footprint we leave online...not only
>>>>> can these guys mine information about our political affiliation but much
>>>>> more..this should really be worried.
>>>>> Ronald Ojino
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10-May-2017 5:06 PM, "Erick Mwangi via kictanet" <
>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Harry,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Purely unfortunate approach adopted here. What is more effective in
>>>>>> the two statements?
>>>>>> 1 - This is a private beach, do not swim!
>>>>>> 2 - Crocodiles present - do not swim!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> E Njoroge Mwangi
>>>>>> Technology| FINTECH | Big Data
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cell +44 7539372742 <+44%207539%20372742>
>>>>>> Skype: Erick.mwangi
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 2:32 PM, Harry Delano via kictanet <
>>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For a moment there, I felt we were discussing pure data analytics,
>>>>>>> but if Mutemi's earlier contribution is placed in the context of what we
>>>>>>> have witnessed in the muddied waters of Brexit, U.S elections and recently
>>>>>>> France, then a disturbing pattern in this trade that blurs the line on the
>>>>>>> scientifics is now emerging rather fast, since everyone contestant wants a
>>>>>>> win at all costs and the firms want to deliver, and earn big on the other
>>>>>>> hand..! Add to this  other geo-political factors at play - it's muddied
>>>>>>> indeed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's a mercenary like approach, that employ psycho metric
>>>>>>> data-driven warfare to a deadly effect as opposed to  traditional
>>>>>>> data-driven analytics that should majorly factor in and be driven in part
>>>>>>> by the socio-economic welfare of the audience. Instead this seems to have
>>>>>>> evolved quickly into scare mongering tactics that leverage data
>>>>>>> mining(ethical and unethical) to appeal to and incite the target audience's
>>>>>>> worst instincts. This should be shunned ..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Harry
>>>>>>> *From: *Grace Mutung'u via kictanet
>>>>>>> *Sent: *Wednesday, May 10, 2017 14:52
>>>>>>> *To: *Harry Delano
>>>>>>> *Reply To: *KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>>>>>>> *Cc: *Grace Mutung'u; Treblex at predictiveanalytics.co.ke
>>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [kictanet] Cambridge Analytica and the Kenyan
>>>>>>> Elections
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> @Douglas and all,
>>>>>>> It will be interesting to understand what other factors (apart from
>>>>>>> ethnicity) tip an election at national level in Kenya. Is the middle class
>>>>>>> vote going to count? So keyboard warriors have a significant effect afterall
>>>>>>> @Coach, I am reading comments about the upcoming presidential
>>>>>>> debates and my conclusions is that people have already made their decisions
>>>>>>> and the debates are for other purposes. Would data really help to pull
>>>>>>> voters heartstrings?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> @John Nduvala,  please share your insights from your book. This is
>>>>>>> interesting
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10 May 2017 7:34 a.m., "Timothy- Coach- Oriedo via kictanet" <
>>>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's fallacy to consider Big Data as a preserve for traditional
>>>>>>>> data as most comments posit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On the contrary Big Data is for the chaff, it looks for meaning
>>>>>>>> where you wouldn't find.  With the advent of social media there is more
>>>>>>>> fodder for data scientists who have backgrounds in psychology,
>>>>>>>> anthropology, sociology who work together with stasticians and computer
>>>>>>>> scientiss to build algorithms and API  that run on Natural Language
>>>>>>>> Processing to mine data and transform it into various dimensions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Having said that be aware the biggest use case for Cambridge
>>>>>>>> Analytical solution is nuansing of communication campaigns to target
>>>>>>>> behaviour change especially in swing vote areas and also for gerry
>>>>>>>> mandering of legislative boundaries.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Watch the space.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Timothy Oriedo
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Co-founder
>>>>>>>> Predictive Analytics
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> www.predictiveanalytics.co.ke
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Timothy Oriedo
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> about.me/Timoriedo
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10 May 2017 14:25, "Douglas Gichuki via kictanet" <
>>>>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A major question for CA to answer is the quantum of voter fluidity
>>>>>>>>> in the Kenyan ecosystem. That is; what is the likelihood that there is an
>>>>>>>>> actual swing vote in Kenya? Are these swing voters online and on social
>>>>>>>>> media?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The two major political groupings draw their support from what
>>>>>>>>> seem to be unmovable, unwavering and unquestioning bases. This is largely
>>>>>>>>> because of the central organising question of our politics around ethnic
>>>>>>>>> nationalism. As such, the exasperated voter in the middle is likely to be
>>>>>>>>> voting for a fringe candidate, or not voting at all. In this climate, who
>>>>>>>>> will CA be targeting with their psychometrics?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On May 10, 2017 1:07 PM, "John Ndavula via kictanet" <
>>>>>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In my book *Social Media Adoption and Campaigns in Kenya**, *scheduled
>>>>>>>>> for publication in June this year, I explore the relationship between
>>>>>>>>> social media and politics, more precisely the political campaign. One of
>>>>>>>>> the questions I address is: What power do social media exercise in the
>>>>>>>>> political campaign process in Kenya? Although my empirical data is hinged
>>>>>>>>> on the 2013 general elections, it is interesting to note that this question
>>>>>>>>> continues to excite interest in the 2017 political campaigns.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> John Ndavula
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Mutemi wa Kiama via kictanet <
>>>>>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Which company are NASA using?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Edwin Kiama
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thoughts become things... choose the good ones!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> Social Justice Entrepreneur, Human Rights Defender,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> #DevolutionIsRevolution Champion
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The Wanjiku Agenda Kenya Foundation (WAKenya)
>>>>>>>>>> Ordinary, fearless Kenyans.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/wanjikurevolutionkenya
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/WanjikuRevolt
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://plus.google.com/u/1/+WanjikuMapinduzi/posts
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.scribd.com/wmkenya
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people
>>>>>>>>>> can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever
>>>>>>>>>> has." ~Margaret Mead
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 10 May 2017 1:35 p.m., "Ali Hussein via kictanet" <
>>>>>>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Grace and all
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There is enough digital data in this country to tip an election.
>>>>>>>>>> With over 6 million Facebook users (Maybe the FB team on this list can
>>>>>>>>>> verify it), with our own version of fake news and negative websites going
>>>>>>>>>> up both for and against the incumbents and the opposition, with Kenyans
>>>>>>>>>> being one of the most digitally savvy in the continent the stage is set for
>>>>>>>>>> interesting times.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> One thing is for sure - We have enough digital data in this
>>>>>>>>>> country to tip an election.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We are now mainstream digitally. Fact.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Oh..And NASA also has the equivalent of CA on their side. :-) So
>>>>>>>>>> this is evenly matched when it comes to digital arsenals. All I can tell
>>>>>>>>>> you guys is this:-
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Buy popcorn, a coke, or your other favourite drink and enjoy the
>>>>>>>>>> show. Just don't forget to vote for your favourite candidate!! Or Party! :-)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *Ali Hussein*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *Principal*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *Hussein & Associates*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Tel: +254 713 601113
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Skype: abu-jomo
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>>>>>>>>>> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Chiromo Road, Westlands,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nairobi, Kenya.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are
>>>>>>>>>> purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the
>>>>>>>>>> organizations that I work with.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 12:29 PM, Grace Mutung'u via kictanet <
>>>>>>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jubilee has contracted the services of global data mining
>>>>>>>>>>> company Cambridge Analytica in the run-up to the August presidential
>>>>>>>>>>> election.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/05/10/uhuru-hires-data-f
>>>>>>>>>>> irm-behind-trump-brexit-victories_c1557720
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Do we really have that much data in Kenya for the kind of data
>>>>>>>>>>> mining that Cambridge Analytica allegedly carries out?
>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting times....
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>> 0alyhussein.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
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>>>>>>>>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
>>>>>>>>> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>>>>>>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
>>>>>>>>> behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
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>>>>>>>>> privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> kictanet mailing list
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>>>>>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
>>>>>>>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
>>>>>>>> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>>>>>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
>>>>>>>> behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
>>>>>>>> bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
>>>>>>>> privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
>>>>>>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
>>>>>>> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>>>>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
>>>>>>> behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
>>>>>>> bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
>>>>>>> privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
>>>>>> ailman/options/kictanet/ronojinx%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
>>>>>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
>>>>>> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>>>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
>>>>>> behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
>>>>>> bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
>>>>>> privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
>>>>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
>>>>> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>>>
>>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>>>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>>>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>>
>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> kictanet mailing list
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
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>>>
>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
>>> ailman/options/kictanet/timoriedo%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>
>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kictanet mailing list
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
>>
>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
>> ailman/options/kictanet/jndavula%40gmail.com
>>
>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>
>
>
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