[kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots

Wed Mar 1 06:52:05 EAT 2017

In a related topic, here are the 5 jobs robots will take first:
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/5-jobs-robots-take-first-shelly-palmer?trk=eml-email_feed_ecosystem_digest_01-hero-0-null&midToken=AQFVkI2BeqJI7g&fromEmail=fromEmail&ut=1P1hcNFzkBwnE1

Regards,
Mildred Achoch.

Check out the Rock 'n' roll film festival, Kenya TV Channel!
http://kenyarockfilmfestivaljournal.blogspot.com

On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <
kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

> I have a couple of concerns about this specific issue:
>
>    1. Firstly, robots do not do everything a person does. That said that
>    is why robots are "assisted" by human elements. The robots are only an
>    extension of the human function to make it "more efficient". In most cases
>    a robot is specialized in one specific line item duty. If they are placing
>    a wheel on a car in the plant they don't place a wheel on a car and go on
>    to record it in a book somewhere. They do just that. They did not go to
>    school to learn manufacturing processes.
>    2. Secondly, what would be termed as a robot (without abusing the
>    term). Is my WiFi modem a robot? Is my blender a robot? Is my car also a
>    robot??
>    3. Thirdly, are robots employed or purchased? (I thought VAT on buying
>    and maintaining robots was already a thing)
>
> Not entirely for this idea for sure.
>
> On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Admin CampusCiti via kictanet <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
>> No doubt. That we need to ensure that we hold our government to account
>> on how they spend our taxes and wherever we can we need to chip in and help
>> the disadvantaged. We should be our brothers' and sisters' keepers.
>>
>> *Ali Hussein*
>> *Hussein & Associates*
>> +254 0713 601113 <+254%20713%20601113> / 0770906375
>>
>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>>
>> Skype: abu-jomo
>>
>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
>>
>> Blog: www.alyhussein.com
>>
>> "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking
>> what no one else has thought".  ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On 28 Feb 2017, at 4:54 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva <Kivuva at transworldafrica.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> That is true Ali. Human will have to develop skills needed in this
>> evolving society. But we should remember in every society, there still will
>> be the F student. There will be the elderly, and most importantly, the
>> peasants. Those with skills will prosper. But we need social nets for the
>> disadvantaged, and those who life has served them only lemons. This
>> category will always be there in every society
>>
>> On Feb 28, 2017 3:49 PM, "Admin CampusCiti" <info at campusciti.com> wrote:
>>
>>> We also need to consider the fact that humans need to upscale their
>>> competencies to enable us to live in this Information and data driven
>>> world. Going forward we will see more and more skilled workers stepping up
>>> to do more important work higher the value chain.
>>>
>>> In the scheme of things we tend to forget this important aspect. AI, MI
>>> etc are human instigated and human will remain at the top of the food
>>> chain.
>>>
>>> *Ali Hussein*
>>> *Hussein & Associates*
>>> +254 0713 601113 <+254%20713%20601113> / 0770906375
>>>
>>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>>>
>>> Skype: abu-jomo
>>>
>>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>>> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
>>>
>>> Blog: www.alyhussein.com
>>>
>>> "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking
>>> what no one else has thought".  ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On 28 Feb 2017, at 3:06 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>
>>> Your point is very good Mark Elkins.
>>>
>>> I think Bill Gates is trying to simulate such a debate ... on what is
>>> the role of humans in an automated, mechanized, and robotized society.
>>> Traditionally, human labour has been considered as a factor of
>>> production. If we declare millions of human labour redundant, and
>>> there are no security measure build around it, where will humans go?
>>> How will they earn their food, education, healthcare, and shelter?
>>> Taxation is such a measure that build social security net around
>>> humanity. So that the robots can produce, and the enterprises pay
>>> government for upkeep of it's people, instead of hoarding the end
>>> products of robots in vaults, and other forms of securities.
>>> ______________________
>>> Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya
>>> twitter.com/lordmwesh
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 28 February 2017 at 15:46, Mark Elkins via kictanet
>>> <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>
>>> I do agree though that if automation removed the jobs of existing people,
>>>
>>> they should be somehow compensated - either moved to a new job
>>> internally or
>>>
>>> re-trained or something positive. Usually with automation, the company
>>> can
>>>
>>> be expanded (make more profit) - which should mean more human staff.
>>> That
>>>
>>> would be the ethical thing to do. I don't see this as a tax though.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 28/02/2017 13:33, Mark Elkins via kictanet wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> This is probably the best reply so far!
>>>
>>>
>>> Personally, a robot is a tool. This could be my coffee maker making a
>>> cup of
>>>
>>> freshly ground coffee rather than a human taking the beans, grounding
>>> them
>>>
>>> with stones, adding them to boiling water - etc... all by hand. Agh.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 28/02/2017 11:19, awatila--- via kictanet wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I think in the discussion the original purpose of taxation is forgotten.
>>>
>>>
>>> A human being pays tax to the government to cover the cost of the common
>>>
>>> services provided by the government.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What are this services that the robot will be consuming from the
>>> government
>>>
>>> that they need to pay for?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Alex
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Mark Kipyegon via kictanet
>>>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 12:06 PM
>>>
>>> To: awatila at yahoo.co.uk
>>>
>>> Cc: Mark Kipyegon
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> During the Industrial Revolution, critics of mechanisation would use
>>> similar
>>>
>>> arguments. Advances in technology should be embraced.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 28 Feb 2017, at 10:25, "kictanet-request at lists.kictanet.or.ke"
>>>
>>> <kictanet-request at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>>
>>>
>>> Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 10:21:47 +0300
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Job Muriuki <muriukin at gmail.com>
>>>
>>>
>>> To: Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack at gmail.com>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>>
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Why Bill Gates would tax robots
>>>
>>>
>>> Message-ID:
>>>
>>>
>>>   <CAJ+RKRbKRsadcYewDv-zEiAN0dpVKryxHye64aUc0FSB5toOkA at mail.gmail.com>
>>>
>>>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Barrack,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am in business and I know it's the bottom line that counts at the expense
>>>
>>>
>>> of people.
>>>
>>>
>>> Now we further what to fire the already strained employee replace them
>>>
>>> with
>>>
>>>
>>> a robot
>>>
>>>
>>> for a fatter bank account and cash you don't need.
>>>
>>>
>>> I believe Bill Gates been the billionaire he is has realised you can have
>>>
>>>
>>> all the cash
>>>
>>>
>>> and wealth you can get but it all without meaning what really matters is
>>>
>>>
>>> the humanity.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> kictanet mailing list
>>>
>>>
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>>
>>>
>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>
>>>
>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
>>>
>>>
>>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at
>>>
>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/awatil
>>> a%40yahoo.co.uk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>>> for
>>>
>>> people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>>>
>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>>
>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
>>> development.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>>
>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
>>> bandwidth,
>>>
>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>>
>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> kictanet mailing list
>>>
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>>
>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>
>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
>>>
>>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
>>>
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at
>>>
>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mje%40posix.co.za
>>>
>>>
>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>>> for
>>>
>>> people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>>>
>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>>
>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
>>> development.
>>>
>>>
>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>>
>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
>>> bandwidth,
>>>
>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>>
>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
>>>
>>> mje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.128070590 <+27%2012%20807%200590>  Cell:
>>> +27.826010496 <+27%2082%20601%200496>
>>>
>>> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> kictanet mailing list
>>>
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>>
>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>
>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
>>>
>>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
>>>
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at
>>>
>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mje%40posix.co.za
>>>
>>>
>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>>> for
>>>
>>> people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>>>
>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>>
>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
>>> development.
>>>
>>>
>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>>
>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
>>> bandwidth,
>>>
>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>>
>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
>>>
>>> mje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.128070590 <+27%2012%20807%200590>  Cell:
>>> +27.826010496 <+27%2082%20601%200496>
>>>
>>> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> kictanet mailing list
>>>
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>>
>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>
>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
>>>
>>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
>>>
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at
>>>
>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kivuva
>>> %40transworldafrica.com
>>>
>>>
>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>>> for
>>>
>>> people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>>>
>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>>
>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
>>> development.
>>>
>>>
>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>>
>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
>>> bandwidth,
>>>
>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>>
>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> kictanet mailing list
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
>>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
>>> ailman/options/kictanet/info%40campusciti.com
>>>
>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>
>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kictanet mailing list
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
>>
>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
>> ailman/options/kictanet/ultimateprogramer%40gmail.com
>>
>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> *Ahmed Maawy*
> Principal Product Management Specialist - Al Jazeera Media Network
> Skype: ultimateprogramer
>
> _______________________________________________
> kictanet mailing list
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
>
> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/
> mailman/options/kictanet/mildandred%40gmail.com
>
> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/pipermail/kictanet/attachments/20170301/d6bfb4e0/attachment.htm>