[kictanet] Fw: [Internet Policy] Berlin court rules parents have no right to dead child's Facebook account

Tue Jun 6 07:18:56 EAT 2017

Warm greetings!
The last time I heard on child online safety locally the message was "Parents, get to know what your child is doing online". 
Does this apply only when alive.....or even while resting in piece?

Overall, legacy issues here - email accounts and other online (digital) avenues.

Be blessed.
Regards/Wangari ---
Pray God Bless. 2013Wangari circa - "Being of the Light, We are Restored Through Faith in Mind, Body and Spirit; We Manifest The Kingdom of God on Earth".

     On Tuesday, 6 June 2017, 6:30, Olévié Kouami <olivierkouami at gmail.com> wrote:

 Hi everyone. 
Just to share with you the following lines read on the FB Wall of a closed friend if me. I totalité concur.'As a parent of a soon-to-become-teenager, I know that I should be involved in and educating their digital life. I don't mean to be intrusive, but present. I need to know and be aware of online dangers and things like cyber-bullying, cyber-stalking, or abusive/dangerous/suspicious messages. I need to educate my kids about these dangers, and even advocate for such education/training in their schools. At home, ofcourse it helps to create an environment of trust and dialogue where my children will feel comfortable telling me about their challenges.'

Warm regardsOlévié 
Le 4 juin 2017 22:17, "Botzko, Stephen" <Stephen.Botzko at polycom.com> a écrit :

Facebook's approach to privacy protection in these cases looks simple to me - designated legacy contacts have full access, anyone else needs a court order to see anything private.  If a court decides that the estate executor (or anyone else) is entitled to access, then the court provides the order, and Facebook complies.

This should provide the best legal protection for Facebook, as they never make the decision on when to provide access.  That's only done by the original account owner, or by a court.  And Facebook never needs to get into the complexity of figuring out who owns the digital assets after death.

Memorialization is distinct from legacy contact BTW - and the legacy contact.

>>> I am not sure how to frame the entire question: when you write a long, important post on FB, who owns it? You or FB?
FB doesn't claim to own your post - their terms of service give them a transferrable right to use it, but not ownership.  As far as I can see from the terms of service, that right to use continues after your death.  It lasts until two conditions are met: (a) your account is deleted AND (b) no one else on FB is sharing your content.

The way I read their terms, they also stop short of saying that you own the post.  That makes sense to me, as far as they know you might be plagiarizing someone else.

Stephen
-----Original Message-----
From: InternetPolicy [mailto:internetpolicy- bounces at elists.isoc.org] On Behalf Of mario chiari
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2017 4:34 PM
To: James Gannon <james at cyberinvasion.net>; Richard Hill <rhill at hill-a.ch>
Cc: 'ISOC Policy' <internetpolicy at elists.isoc. org>
Subject: Re: [Internet Policy] Berlin court rules parents have no right to dead child's Facebook account

Hi James,

On Sun, 2017-06-04 at 09:02 +0000, James Gannon wrote:
> Can I ask that people when wanting to talk about a topic at least go
> and read the topics in question:
>
> From Facebook, https://www.facebook.com/help/ 1506822589577997/
>
>       What will happen to my Facebook account if I pass away?
>               You can tell us in advance whether you’d like to have your account
> memorialized or permanently deleted from Facebook.
>               No one can log into a memorialized account
>
>       Why can't I log into a memorialized account on Facebook?
>               If Facebook is made aware that a person has passed away, it's our
> policy to memorialize the account.
>               Please keep in mind that it's always against the Facebook Terms to
> log into another person's account. We'll only be able to give you access to
> an account if we can verify                   that it’s your own
> account.

Besides  whether or not those guidelines are in accordance with law of the different country where FB operates, even they (which by the way do not seem to be included in the contractual terms of use, I do not see them implied by https:
//www.facebook.com/legal/terms ) are somehow stating that a "executor of the account holder" may ask to delete the account - apparently including  "data stored in backup systems" - of the deceased, see section "How do I request the removal of a deceased family member's Facebook account?".

So, it does seem that FB recognizes that an 'executor'(heir) may ask to delete, but not to download!,  data stored in backup systems related to the deceased user.

By a quick browsing, it is not clear to me how FB intends to  marry that with its own talk about to let a user to choose  to memorialize an account, 'legacy contacts' (see  https://www.facebook.com/help/ 1568013990080948?helpref= search&sr
=1&query=Legacy%20Contacts) and similar.

I am not sure how to frame the entire question: when you write a long, important post on FB, who owns it? You or FB?

>
> As to my safety deposit box situation yes that is what is in my
> contract that unless I state otherwise in my will my box is not to be
> shared with anyone including my heirs.

Frankly, I do not understand: are you saying that the content of that box, in the unfortunate case in 1000 years, will be seized by your safety box provider? Is that by default under USA law, unless you state otherwise in your will?

Thanks for your replies
cheers
mario

>
> -JG
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mario chiari [mailto:posta at mariochiari.net]
> Sent: 04 June 2017 09:48
> To: James Gannon <james at cyberinvasion.net>; Richard Hill <rhill at hill-a.ch>
> Cc: 'ISOC Policy' <internetpolicy at elists.isoc. org>
> Subject: Re: [Internet Policy] Berlin court rules parents have no right to
> dead child's Facebook account
>
> Hi James,
>
> On Sat, 2017-06-03 at 14:51 +0000, James Gannon wrote:
> >
> > No my express wishes may be enshrined in the contract I sign with the
> > vendor at any point, that construct is not only allowed through my will.
> You wrote about "a  express provision in the contract [you] have [with your]
> safe deposit box [providers] such [you] expect them to keep [your] personal
> effects private". In your real case, is that so that it will shield those
> providers from your heirs, even in the case of your passing away?
>
> I have a safety box at my bank office too, my understanding is that by default
> (under contractual terms for safety box most common in Italy) it will be
> accessible to my heirs.
>
> >
> > Your position of relegation of rights on death is frankly strange,
> > just because a person is dead does not mean they lose all of the
> > rights of contracts they have signed during their life.
> I am not claiming a so general proposition (about all of the rights), but I do
> not see how  that German underage could have signed anything such to keep
> her/his FB account unaccessible from her/his parents, even in case of her/his
> passing away. I doubt anything similar is even remotely implied by her/his
> undersigning FB's terms of use.  Do you think otherwise?
>
> thanks, best wishes
> mario
>
> .....
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, 2017-06-03 at 11:05 +0000, James Gannon wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Unless I express otherwise in my will or in the contact with the
> > > > PO box company I would of course expect them to keep my personal
> > > > effects private, this is an express provision in many contracts
> > > > that are expected to last until death, for example I know there is
> > > > such a provision in the contract I have in my safe deposit box.
> > > >
> > > > -J
> ....

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/pipermail/kictanet/attachments/20170606/4784db97/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
To manage your ISOC subscriptions or unsubscribe,
please log into the ISOC Member Portal:
https://portal.isoc.org/
Then choose Interests & Subscriptions from the My Account menu.