[kictanet] ict practitioners bill is back
Josiah Mugambi
josiah.mugambi at gmail.com
Mon Dec 18 17:01:18 EAT 2017
My view:
**ICT is diverse:*
- ICT is so wide and intersects with literally every other industry or
discipline. I would compare it to Manufacturing - which involves
engineering (you can break this down further), intersects with material
sciences, ICT itself, etc.
- Why would anyone need a single body given the diversity of fields that
could be conceivably classified under ICT? telco, media, software,
hardware, cyber security, etc
- people go where they feel included, represented, can find value etc.
Hence the multiple groups. I don't see any thing wrong with that. It's
human nature. Even with these groups/orgs, I'm reasonably certain that
many techies, ICT companies do not have membership.
- Groups can work occasionally as alliances (like in the case of last
year's ICT P bill representations in Parliament).
**speed of innovation/change:*
- has been brought up more than once by listers so won't belabor this point.
**policing/regulation:*
- let the market do this! *Chema cha jiuza... *
- I think this is only necessary where resources (e.g. spectrum) are
constrained, or when health, lives are directly affected.
**how about a community project (?):*
- if this problem is one of trust and verifiability amongst multiple
players, how about a public blockchain? Consensus based on one or more of
past work, years of experience, other players/stakeholders. I might be
reaching but since blockchain was mentioned at some point...
**Global example of a self organized technology group:*
- IEEE <http://www.ieee.org> structure and its numerous societies and
communities <https://www.ieee.org/societies_communities/index.html#sect5>.
- IEEE is world's largest technical professional organization
- IEEE membership is no longer restricted to EE engineers.. - food for
thought.
On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 3:41 PM, anyega jefferson via kictanet <
kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> "Because they are very sharp people who have taken the time to understand
> what it takes to get things done, within the current environment. While the
> *ideal* situation would be for them to lobby for the rest of us while we
> go about our keyboard warrior campaigns, I would not hold it against them
> if they served their own interests first"
>
>
> Chief,
>
> If kids in their campus hostels and parent's basements are disrupting
> industries, don't you think ICT is one place where gatekeepers are not
> required?
>
> As AI, Blockchain etc are new things, who has proved themselves so much to
> deem themselves gatekeepers to determine if others can do it or not?
>
> ICT can't work as the law profession because here experience may be good
> in terms of compliance with market, business models, but certainly not with
> what someone creates. If my small sister, barely in her teenagehood creates
> an app, who would have the right to tell her that she ins't qualified to do
> so? If its an app on say, Blockchain or A.I, who would even have the
> expertise to tell her she can't?
>
>
> With all due respect, i believe gatekeepers stifle innovation, And if Bill
> Gates and Mark Zuckerberg, did not have to go through a gatekeeper no one
> else should have to,
>
> On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 3:28 PM, Kevin Kamonye via kictanet <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
>> Hello Collins,
>>
>> I will direct my response to the community(myself included) through your
>> email, but I assure you that I hold no grudge to you or anyone else
>> individually.
>>
>> *I do not even see what the problem here is, What is so hard in having a
>>> membership based organization (who's membership is open to all) regulating
>>> policy, where members then can openly discuss, define, and review*
>>> *..*..
>>>
>>
>> This is the idealistic mentality that plagues this and every other geek
>> association that was ever formed on the planet Earth. We think we know the
>> easy path to solving every other problem.
>>
>> *Why should some people somewhere earn dollars to sit in expensive
>>> committees to come up with a classroom style definition of what an ICT
>>> professional is, and then spend even more money stopping people from
>>> exploiting their creativity. *
>>
>>
>> Because they are very sharp people who have taken the time to understand
>> what it takes to get things done, within the current environment. While the
>> *ideal* situation would be for them to lobby for the rest of us while we
>> go about our keyboard warrior campaigns, I would not hold it against them
>> if they served their own interests first.
>>
>> I personally recall notifying this community as regards the peaceful
>> awareness march some time last year about a colleague of mine who died in
>> Ethiopia, and more so about the others that are still rotting in remand
>> (not even jail), and how many of you showed up?
>>
>> More importantly, having a unified framework that details how to seek
>> opportunities and from where would have avoided many such unfortunate
>> incidents.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> *Bwana PS: I do not know what the motivations for this bill are, The
>>> only point of reference we have are the first one, I would still look at it
>>> suspiciously, especially the urgency with which it is being reintroduced,
>>> period! Why not present the gaps as they are and we just focus on filling
>>> the gaps. *
>>
>>
>> We have direct access to the CS. And he is not just any other guy but
>> someone who has proven himself at all levels in the industry. And he is
>> taking his time to engage with us and almost begging us to organise
>> ourselves in such a manner that our opinions can be of some meaningful use
>> to both the industry at large and to ourselves individually.
>>
>> The best that we can offer him is vague responses and maybe even some
>> hostility.
>>
>> Let me break this one down, because this is what we need to "accept" to
>> understand. I say accept because I know we all have the capacity to do so
>> but we are applying some kind of myopia so that we can continue to vent hot
>> air from the cool shade of our comfort zones.
>>
>> Mucheru has given us a very crucial pointer of the who is who to him as
>> the holder of the office of CS ICT in the Republic of Kenya. KEPSA is the
>> body that the three arms of the GoK would work with as the legitimate
>> representatives of the private sector in Kenya.
>>
>> As important as ICT is to the present and future of +254, we are not any
>> more special than the other sectors so as to warrant every other grouping
>> within the industry a direct vote when it comes to public participation. It
>> is therefore wise for us to be in very good books with KEPSA and especially
>> with our current <https://kepsa.or.ke/sector-comittees/> reps. One thing
>> I will point out is that it is important for us to take note that Mr.
>> Macharia comes from the umbrella of KITOS and here is there vision
>> <http://kitos.or.ke/about-us/>. The word c*atalyst* should sound very
>> familiar to us so maybe we really really need to be nice to this man if we
>> are to remain relevant as KICTAnet.
>>
>> The way I see it, it was actually a good show of faith by KEPSA to
>> accommodate KICTAnet into their submissions because they really didn't have
>> and in any case there would have been no significant repercussions for them
>> in ignoring this toothless [insert whatever you imagine we are].
>>
>>
>>>
>>> *The one thing that differentiated how Britain's Industrial revolution
>>> was by magnitudes far more successful than France, is that one had an open
>>> policy to innovation, anyone could be listened to and the default challenge
>>> was always "Prove it", In the other, Before you showed up before schooled
>>> men & women, you had to prove you are qualified to even set foot on
>>> stage. Names like John Kay, Richard Arkwright, James Watt and Stephenson
>>> would not exist today, in a worldview that seeks to strangle innovation. *
>>
>>
>> This is a very good insight. To this I will respond as follows.
>>
>> The people who hold sway in our economy and therefore policy are people
>> who got there by being cautious to things they do not understand. I think
>> this is where the issue both is and also therein lies our opportunity to
>> get the change we want. For instance, many of you here might be the IT
>> person of someone who would never listen to anyone else about anything to
>> do with "computer" without consulting with you. I don't think I will need
>> to hammer this point any further..
>>
>> For my part I will support this bill. I am one of those with tonnes of
>> experience but with little formal education. I have tried to go to Uni and
>> it was always painful to sit in those classes. What I will tell you is that
>> for every other success story you hear of drop outs that you hear, there
>> are 1000x more who are suffering the pain of being filtered out of many
>> opportunities even before they can get a chance of presenting these skills
>> that they hold.
>>
>> It will be hard to get the exact right framework in place, but I am
>> willing to put in the work of starting this journey and hopefully create a
>> better future for many others that I can tell you will benefit from some
>> kind of recognition of the work they have put into developing their careers.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>> On 18 December 2017 at 13:45, Collins Areba via kictanet <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>
>>> I do not even see what the problem here is, What is so hard in having a
>>> membership based organization (who's membership is open to all) regulating
>>> policy, where members then can openly discuss, define, and review :
>>>
>>> a) What strengths we have as a nation on the ICT front,
>>> b) What opportunities exist and how we can leverage this for the greater
>>> good and
>>> c) How we should behave so our status professionally keeps rising.
>>>
>>>
>>> Why should some people somewhere earn dollars to sit in expensive
>>> committees to come up with a classroom style definition of what an ICT
>>> professional is, and then spend even more money stopping people from
>>> exploiting their creativity.
>>>
>>> *Bwana PS:*
>>>
>>> I do not know what the motivations for this bill are, The only point of
>>> reference we have are the first one, I would still look at it suspiciously,
>>> especially the urgency with which it is being reintroduced, period!
>>>
>>> Why not present the gaps as they are and we just focus on filling the
>>> gaps.
>>>
>>> The one thing that differentiated how Britain's Industrial revolution
>>> was by magnitudes far more successful than France, is that one had an open
>>> policy to innovation, anyone could be listened to and the default challenge
>>> was always "Prove it", In the other, Before you showed up before schooled
>>> men & women, you had to prove you are qualified to even set foot on stage.
>>>
>>> Names like John Kay, Richard Arkwright, James Watt and Stephenson would
>>> not exist today, in a worldview that seeks to strangle innovation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Collins Areba,
>>> Kilifi, Kenya.
>>> Tel: +*254 707 750 788 */ *0731750788*
>>> Twitter: @arebacollins.
>>> Skype: arebacollins
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 12:45 PM, Victor Kapiyo via kictanet <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jambo,
>>>>
>>>> As we mull over this discussion, let us also consider how we engage.
>>>> Attached is a Kictanet brief for discussion that identifies some key
>>>> characteristics for inclusive cyber policy making that would be useful
>>>> moving forward.
>>>>
>>>> Victor
>>>>
>>>> On 18 Dec 2017 10:16, "gertrude matata via kictanet" <
>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In support of self regulation, there are at least some traditional
>>>>> guidelines when coming up with new legislation:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Is there serious mischief clearly identified that the law should
>>>>> address.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Who is best suited to cure the mischief
>>>>> 3.In prescribing a cure, consider whether the proposed cure is likely
>>>>> to create some other mischief ,if so
>>>>> 4. Consider which is the worse mischief , the current ill or the side
>>>>> effects of the cure.
>>>>> 5.Who would be qualified to cure is the authority or institution that
>>>>> is to be given the mandate to deal with the mischief.
>>>>>
>>>>> So the pros and Cons of the Bill should be subjected to the test.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gertrude Matata
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> GERTRUDE MATATA CO. ADVOCATES
>>>>> COMMISSIONERS FOR OATHS NOTARY PUBLIC
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>>>>> Call
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>>>>>
>>>>> On Monday, December 18, 2017, 11:19:05 AM GMT+3, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu)
>>>>> via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Replying to Julius Njiraini who has been posting one liners in support
>>>>> of the bill.....and also about this one organisation represents everyone....
>>>>> we are a diverse country with varying interests. And diversity is
>>>>> good as it helps us to get different points of view on the table. No one
>>>>> organisation has monopoly of views in ICT or any other sector.
>>>>> We must dissuade ourselves from the notion that people need the law or
>>>>> a new law to organise themselves. Humans are social and they organise
>>>>> naturally. KEPSA, KICTANet, ISACA and many others who engage on ICT policy
>>>>> exsist without a special law?
>>>>> I hope this debate can shift from forced association through ICT
>>>>> Practitioners Bill to identifying the problems and seeking solutions.
>>>>> In my view, one main challenge is that the Ministry could be more
>>>>> responsive to stakeholders who want to engage with it. And this should be
>>>>> any and all stakeholders who are interested be they organisations or
>>>>> individuals, all sectors- private, academia, techies and civil society.
>>>>> More openess than closeness please!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 18 Dec 2017 02:02, "Ali Hussein via kictanet" <
>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> @Fiona
>>>>>
>>>>> I stand by my statement.
>>>>>
>>>>> We DID NOT mandate KEPSA to speak on our behalf but we created an
>>>>> inclusive team. This was a partnership. Even the letter to parliament had
>>>>> all our logos. KEPSA, BAKE, KICTANET etc. And yes that team was
>>>>> specifically set up to kill the ICT Bill. That work was concluded. To hear
>>>>> of a revived initiative that purported to have a representative from
>>>>> KICTANet is really a surprise to us all.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I recall the representatives from KICTANet were myself and Grace
>>>>> Bomu. John Walubengo was also part of the team in case one of us couldn’t
>>>>> attend the meetings. If there were any further initiatives on this bill the
>>>>> first time we heard about them was through the press.
>>>>>
>>>>> To be clear. I stand by my statement. KEPSA doesn’t have the mandate
>>>>> to represent KICTANet.
>>>>>
>>>>> *Ali Hussein*
>>>>> *Principal*
>>>>> *Hussein & Associates*
>>>>> +254 0713 601113
>>>>>
>>>>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>>>>>
>>>>> Skype: abu-jomo
>>>>>
>>>>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin. com/in/alihkassim
>>>>> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
>>>>>
>>>>> "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act
>>>>> but a habit." ~ Aristotle
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>
>>>>> On 17 Dec 2017, at 11:17 PM, Liz Orembo via kictanet <
>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> For the record KICTANet was opposed to the ICT practitioners bill.
>>>>> Please see the submission to parliament https://www.kictane
>>>>> t.or.ke/?page_id=28886 <https://www.kictanet.or.ke/?page_id=28886>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 8:13 PM, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <
>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Listers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Allow me to add a comment or two. I believe we will start deviating
>>>>> from the main issue.
>>>>>
>>>>> Firstly, I think we need to very much understand where the buck stops
>>>>> on each matter. As much as yes, Bwana Mucheru, you require the industry to
>>>>> take lead in defining frameworks, there also needs to be guidance from the
>>>>> top. KICTANET <https://www.kictanet.or.ke/> is (as on the website) a
>>>>> catalyst for reforms. Bwana Mucheru these reforms need to be worked on by
>>>>> the both of us. We need you to become a part of the process together with
>>>>> all of us. The whole point of having the MoICT and bodies like Kictanet
>>>>> (which are catalysts) is the fact that we need to work together. Silos
>>>>> don't solve a problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bwana Mucheru, also I may not recollect this list necessarily being
>>>>> hostile in the past. And as any of us, you have a right to make your
>>>>> comments heard, and also I believe we need to also have a feedback loop
>>>>> between all of us. I think through the KICTANET website it is evident
>>>>> KICTANET has been doing its job well. If there are ways KICTANET can
>>>>> improve, Bwana Mucheru, feel free to raise the suggestions. This country
>>>>> belongs to all of us Sir.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lastly, Bwana Mucheru, this list has too many members who are
>>>>> strategic to the development of our country. And all of us need to be
>>>>> engaged with you. I think it will not do all of us much justice if we see
>>>>> you refrain from commenting on it. Lets all work collectively.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Fiona Asonga via kictanet <
>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Ali
>>>>>
>>>>> You were with us at KEPSA Offices when we asked that KICATNET nominate
>>>>> representatives to work with us on the ICT Practitioners Bill. Because we
>>>>> want to achieve more as an industry we ave continues to work with your
>>>>> representatives even on the Vision 2030 MTP III plan and other engagements
>>>>> we have had with the ministry of ICT. It is not about KICTANET being a
>>>>> member but being a partner and working with TESPOK, DRAKE, KITOS, BAKE,
>>>>> ICTAK and any other ICT association.
>>>>>
>>>>> The document we circulated through KEPSA to the Ministry and
>>>>> parliament included KICATNET as part of KEPSA. You may need to reconsider
>>>>> your statement to CS Mucheru. Secondly, the KEPSA partnership with KICTANET
>>>>> is not compulsory. However, it is in the interest of achieving similar set
>>>>> goals for the ICT sector as a whole. KICATNET is free to pull out of it at
>>>>> any time just advise KEPSA secretariat on the same.
>>>>>
>>>>> Together we can achieve more
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> *From: *"Ali Hussein via kictanet" <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke >
>>>>> *To: *tespok at tespok.co.ke
>>>>> *Cc: *"Ali Hussein" <ali at hussein.me.ke>
>>>>> *Sent: *Sunday, December 17, 2017 3:11:02 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [kictanet] ict practitioners bill is back
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Bwana CS
>>>>>
>>>>> KICTANet NEVER asked KEPSA to handle engagements on our behalf. We
>>>>> engaged KEPSA to work as a team. Period. Never, did we abdicate our
>>>>> responsibilities to KEPSA because we are not KEPSA members. If KEPSA gave
>>>>> you that belief then I'm afraid that you were misled. And KEPSA should
>>>>> apologise for misleading you.
>>>>>
>>>>> *Ali Hussein*
>>>>>
>>>>> *Principal*
>>>>>
>>>>> *Hussein & Associates*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Tel: +254 713 601113
>>>>>
>>>>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>>>>>
>>>>> Skype: abu-jomo
>>>>>
>>>>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alih kassim
>>>>> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
>>>>> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing,
>>>>>
>>>>> Chiromo Road, Westlands,
>>>>>
>>>>> Nairobi, Kenya.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are
>>>>> purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the
>>>>> organizations that I work with.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Joseph Mucheru via kictanet <
>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Ali Hussein,
>>>>>
>>>>> This is the reason I keep off this list. You are calling me a liar and
>>>>> yet your team asked KEPSA to handle the engagements in this matter.
>>>>>
>>>>> With all respect going forward let's follow the agreed engagements
>>>>> between government and private sector.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ahsante Sana!
>>>>>
>>>>> JM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 17 Dec 2017 11:17, "Ali Hussein via kictanet" <
>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Bwana CS
>>>>>
>>>>> With all due respect. You are a senior government official and
>>>>> shouldn’t peddle untruths.
>>>>>
>>>>> KICTANet HAS NEVER BEEN PART OF KEPSA.
>>>>>
>>>>> We have collaborated only once on the ICT BIll. Most of us don’t
>>>>> believe KEPSA is representative of the wider ICT Industry.
>>>>>
>>>>> We welcome dialogue with your ministry and KEPSA on this. We are happy
>>>>> to be included in the conversation. We however CANNOT endorse a dialogue
>>>>> and discussions we are not party to.
>>>>>
>>>>> *Ali Hussein*
>>>>> *Principal*
>>>>> *Hussein & Associates*
>>>>> +254 0713 601113
>>>>>
>>>>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>>>>>
>>>>> Skype: abu-jomo
>>>>>
>>>>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.c om/in/alihkassim
>>>>> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
>>>>>
>>>>> "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act
>>>>> but a habit." ~ Aristotle
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>
>>>>> On 17 Dec 2017, at 9:04 AM, Julius Njiraini via kictanet <
>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Digital forensic expert is involved in investigation of fraud, abuse,
>>>>> embezzlement, larceny, conversion of any digital device, records and
>>>>> process. The report is supposed to be presented in courtroom and testify as
>>>>> expert witness. He is also supposed to corroborate evidence with other
>>>>> segment of crime scene using relevant laws including evidence act, criminal
>>>>> procedures code and cyber crime laws as best international laws in other
>>>>> countries
>>>>> On Dec 17, 2017 8:32 AM, "Julius Njiraini" <njiraini2001 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for your enlightenment. Am just concerned about new emerging
>>>>> fields like information security and forensics which is mainly concerned
>>>>> with digital cyber crime and evidence presentation in courtroom. These is
>>>>> especially concerns for computer security and forensics professionals
>>>>> On Dec 17, 2017 6:12 AM, "Joseph Mucheru via kictanet" <
>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The absence of dialogue and relying on media reports is a recipe for
>>>>> discord. The current views, sentiments and concerns raised in the group are
>>>>> justified only because there is no dialogue. Kicktanet is part of
>>>>> KEPSA <https://kepsa.or.ke> who we are in constant dialogue even on
>>>>> this topic. Going forward, the need to dialogue through the agreed channels
>>>>> is key;
>>>>>
>>>>> So let me try and give a position on where we are;
>>>>>
>>>>> - I did state that we will need a Practitioners Bill and even
>>>>> clarified to media it would not be the current one
>>>>> - There is currently NO Bill in parliament. The last one lapsed
>>>>> and we would need to start afresh
>>>>> - The bill identified a need/gap in our sector that requires some
>>>>> action, especially since ICT is at the heart of the Governments development
>>>>> agenda
>>>>> - The Industry was opposed with the method/solutions proposed by
>>>>> the Bill but not the fact there is a gap
>>>>> - Other Industries have self regulating bodies and if our sector
>>>>> is to grow, we need to get organised and set this up. Why should government
>>>>> have to do it?
>>>>> - We are exporting our skills regionally and internationally and a
>>>>> need to standardise and demonstrate our skills is key. This is because we
>>>>> are not working in isolation, we are competing with other countries and
>>>>> Kenya must be able to demonstrate consistent and quality skills -- today we
>>>>> are blacklisted on various online jobs platforms because of a few bad
>>>>> apples, while we know we have some of the best talents, we are also losing
>>>>> tenders and business because we have not conformed to specific
>>>>> international standards and so the rating of our products/services falls
>>>>> short. (KBS is working on the standards)
>>>>>
>>>>> And for the accusations...
>>>>>
>>>>> - It was a private members bill and not sponsored by Government
>>>>> (We opposed it in its current form - you know that, otherwise google it).
>>>>> - Responding to questions from the sector does not amount to a
>>>>> "roadside decision", considering the level of engagement we have had on
>>>>> this issue
>>>>> - The Government is there to serve the people of Kenya and not
>>>>> just the sector in isolation
>>>>> - Skills Rating systems used by platforms such as Kuhastle.com,
>>>>> upwork.com., cloudfactory.com, monster.com..etc are examples of
>>>>> ways people are able to build and demonstrate skills both technical and
>>>>> otherwise
>>>>> - I have had engagements on this topic with KEPSA (ICT Sector
>>>>> Committee <https://kepsa.or.ke/sector-comittees/>) - Mike Macharia
>>>>> being the Chair
>>>>> - I saw in social media many of you opposed to ICTAK
>>>>> <http://www.ictak.or.ke/> being enjoined in the supreme court
>>>>> presidential petition, but none came out (Kicktanet included) to
>>>>> support/represent the sector, which was at the heart of the dispute. At the
>>>>> very least ICTAK <http://www.ictak.or.ke/> was willing to come
>>>>> forward.
>>>>> - Similar to the Law Society, The Supreme Court should have chosen
>>>>> the ICT experts from the ICT Industry body?
>>>>>
>>>>> My advice would be for the sector to take the lead and suggest how
>>>>> this need/gap of* "SKILLS RATING" standards etc.. *can be addressed.
>>>>> We are on the same side. If industry does not take the lead, then
>>>>> Government will step in. As it stands, industry has various bodies and you
>>>>> need to agree on how to engage amongst yourselves. We are going to be
>>>>> successful and so let us push in the same direction.
>>>>>
>>>>> Finally, today the official engagement between government and the ICT
>>>>> sector is through KEPSA <https://kepsa.or.ke/> . (KICTAnet, TESPOK,
>>>>> KITOS etc.. are members and even when we engaged on the ICT Practitioners
>>>>> bill, the sector was represented by KEPSA, when we met MPs).
>>>>>
>>>>> The last discussion on Tuesday 14th December 2017 between KEPSA and
>>>>> the Ministry covered the following topics;
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. ICT Policy
>>>>> 2. Kick-off Industry meetings
>>>>> 3. Bills / Opinions - ICT Practitioners Bill
>>>>> 4. PDTP <http://icta.go.ke/digitalent/> + Ajira Digital
>>>>> <http://ajiradigital.go.ke/> (Jobs)
>>>>> 5. Flagship Projects
>>>>> 6. Constituency Development Hubs
>>>>> <http://www.ict.go.ke/constituency-to-get-an-innovation-hub/>
>>>>> 7. ICTA Engagement with Counties
>>>>> 8. Enterprise Kenya
>>>>> 9. Blockchain
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you!
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 3:07 AM, Andrew Alston via kictanet <
>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So – having seen an article in the standardmedia in which elements of
>>>>> what I stated below were quoted – and to which there seem to have been
>>>>> responses – I now need to comment further:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (Article found at: https://www.standardmedia.co.k
>>>>> e/business/article/2001263257/ techies-oppose-move-to-introdu
>>>>> ce-new-ict-watchdog
>>>>> <https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/business/article/2001263257/techies-oppose-move-to-introduce-new-ict-watchdog>
>>>>> )
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Mucheru, however, denies that the Bill will lock out experts without
>>>>> formal training insisting the reverse will be the case. “This Bill will
>>>>> benefit the people who have been working in technical capacity for years
>>>>> but have not acquired certificates,” he explained. “If they can demonstrate
>>>>> their proficiency to the Institute then they can get certified and widen
>>>>> the scope of jobs they can bid or apply for.” *
>>>>>
>>>>> So – I have a question – What will be the method of demonstrating
>>>>> proficiency and how will this be tested – and what will it cost – and how
>>>>> long will it take.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Now – let me break the questions down a bit
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. The ICT field is vast – are you going to test proficiency in
>>>>> programming? In networking? In security? In database administration? In
>>>>> desktop support? In Linux? Freebsd? Microsoft? Solaris? AIX? What is the
>>>>> test going to be – and who is going to administer these tests
>>>>> 2. What makes an industry body more capable of testing proficiency
>>>>> than Cisco, Juniper, Huawei or any of the other vendors – the bill does *
>>>>> *NOT** cater for industry standard certification outside of formal
>>>>> education – it simply is not in there – and if you are not going to accept
>>>>> these and are going to have this industry body determine proficiency – we
>>>>> need to know how this will be done and how the people testing proficiency
>>>>> will be qualified to do it – and in what fields they are qualified to test
>>>>> proficiency.
>>>>> 3. What is the cost of this testing of proficiency – does an
>>>>> individual who has certified as a CCIE at the cost of thousands – and in
>>>>> some cases tens of thousands – of dollars suddenly need to pay more to
>>>>> demonstrate something that he has clearly already demonstrated? Who will it
>>>>> be paid for? How will the money be utilized? Will this be included in the
>>>>> license fee for the first year? Or will this suddenly cost extra so
>>>>> someone can make some money?
>>>>> 4. How does does it take to “demonstrate proficiency” – and if I
>>>>> bring in someone from outside to train my staff in a new field of
>>>>> technology – is he going to be made to sit some kind of exam? Or pay some
>>>>> kind of fee before he can upskill Kenyans? Because – lets be real – that is
>>>>> not going to happen – it will be the death of bringing in people to impart
>>>>> knowledge.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me be blunt – more than half the authors of the RFC’s within the
>>>>> IETF would not qualify under the bill as it stands – this means they would
>>>>> have to “demonstrate” their proficiency – despite the fact that they have
>>>>> their names on Internet standards – and if people expect these individuals
>>>>> to sit exams or prove to people that they know what they are doing –
>>>>> despite the knowledge having been clearly demonstrated (which is why they
>>>>> are being flown in in the first place, to train Kenyans in skills that are
>>>>> not available in the country so that those Kenyans can continue to further
>>>>> upskill and lift up the industry) – you can kiss goodbye to having cutting
>>>>> edge people coming into this country – it simply won’t happen – and it will
>>>>> be Kenya that loses out.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Then to comment on this:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Mucheru adds that the Government has held several engagements with
>>>>> practitioners in the sector on the provisions of the Bill. *
>>>>>
>>>>> Correct – there was massive engagement – and the bill was largely
>>>>> defeated after the industry said it was broken – after people on this list
>>>>> said it was broken – after it was slammed left right and centre – so yes –
>>>>> there was engagement – but the article is wrong about the fact that the
>>>>> engagement agreed that this bill in its current form was a good idea or
>>>>> represented the correct solution.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *“There was consensus that we need to establish a professional body to
>>>>> regulate the industry,” he said. *
>>>>>
>>>>> I have no problem with the concept of a professional body – I have
>>>>> major problems with forcing a situation where people who have potentially
>>>>> decades of experience have to suddenly “prove” their skills via some
>>>>> entirely undefined means at some undefined cost to a bunch of people who
>>>>> may or may not have anywhere close to the experience or knowledge of the
>>>>> person being tested. If we said that we had a professional body that people
>>>>> could register to – and they needed to be registered – and in the event of
>>>>> *substantiated* complaints the individual could be deregistered and
>>>>> blacklisted – I would have no problem. It is the arbitrary and
>>>>> unsubstantiated and undefined criteria for registration that I take
>>>>> exception to – and that I believe could result in expensive legal
>>>>> challenges.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Please – do not get me wrong – I do not begrudge anyone who has a
>>>>> desire to genuinely root out the bad apples and clean up the industry and
>>>>> remove scam artists and fraudsters. I think that is a noble and pure
>>>>> objective that should be pursued. I however dispute the fact that this
>>>>> bill is the right way to go about it – and I dispute the fact that
>>>>> university degrees have anything to do with competence in this industry –
>>>>> particularly with the rate that technology evolves – because an individual
>>>>> doing a 3 year degree who is learning specific technologies in his first
>>>>> year – by the time he graduates – those technologies are history – and when
>>>>> he walks into the industry – he is having to self study it all again
>>>>> ANYWAY. Let me give you examples of technologies that did not exist a year
>>>>> ago in any real form:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Segment routing – the foundation of network routing going
>>>>> forward and the replacement to MPLS – how do I know this – because I’ve had
>>>>> my hands in crafting the specifications and doing a lot of the beta testing
>>>>> for it – so who is going to test proficiency here – it changes the game –
>>>>> and the only people qualified to teach it – or gauge the proficiency in it
>>>>> – do not themselves qualify under this bill to be registered.
>>>>> 2. Network telemetry processing – first introduced in limited form
>>>>> in Q3 2015 – and only now becoming main stream – but within a year of it
>>>>> being main stream – it will replace standard network monitoring entirely –
>>>>> who is going to teach that with a university degree?
>>>>> 3. Which university degree teaches BGP? BGP-LU? ISIS? Network
>>>>> segmentation? IPv6 addressing?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The list is endless – these are things that cannot be learnt through a
>>>>> degree – they are learnt through industry standard certification or
>>>>> self-skilling by reading documentation.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So, Mr Mucheru – please – do not read me wrong – I have tremendous
>>>>> respect for the regulator in this country – and it is testament to how well
>>>>> the Kenyan industry and the regulatory environment here works that today –
>>>>> Kenya has higher average mobile broadband speeds than either the US or
>>>>> South Africa or a lot of other places. It is testament to the regulatory
>>>>> environment here that we have the high-speed networks we do – and that the
>>>>> pricing is as low as it is – because the industry is competitive and open
>>>>> and innovative. This list of things the regulator has gotten right in this
>>>>> country is long - I do however plead with you, the bill as it stands would
>>>>> break the industry that all of us – yourself – myself – and so many others
>>>>> have worked so hard to build. I am NOT against a professional body – I am
>>>>> NOT against formalizing things – but I beg you – do not walk down the road
>>>>> of this current bill in its current form – it will be death to this
>>>>> industry in this country.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrew Alston
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From: *Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.c om
>>>>> <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>
>>>>> *Date: *Monday, 4 December 2017 at 01:24
>>>>> *To: *KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke >
>>>>> *Cc: *Liz Wanjiru <lizwanjiru at gmail.com>
>>>>> *Subject: *RE: [kictanet] ict practitioners bill is back
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have to say – personally I cannot think of a worse piece of
>>>>> legislation that I have seen in recent history.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Let us look at the net effects of this and the problems with it:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Large companies bring in consultants or external people where
>>>>> necessary to supplement capacity, to train and upskill Kenyan staff etc,
>>>>> while those guys are here, even for a week or two, they are compensated,
>>>>> and my reading of this bill is – this would be illegal – because you’d have
>>>>> to get every consultant you bring in accredited and licensed first – which
>>>>> is impractical in the extreme
>>>>> 2. The list of highly skilled people with 20+ years experience who
>>>>> would not qualify for accreditation under this bill is extensive, globally
>>>>> and within Kenya – this bill completely stops any form of knowledge
>>>>> transfer from those individuals and in fact will force a situation where
>>>>> Kenyan’s who wish to learn from some of the biggest names in the industry
>>>>> would be forced to go internationally to get that knowledge, rather than
>>>>> bringing those people in to train locally
>>>>> 3. It forces Kenyans who have spent years learning and honing
>>>>> their skills without university qualifications out of work and could well
>>>>> result in large scale job losses looking at the number of highly skilled
>>>>> individuals I know of who are working without qualifications
>>>>> 4. It prevents private companies from making what are normal
>>>>> business decisions – who they hire and who they pay. That is problematic
>>>>> in the extreme – in any normal situation if a private company hires staff
>>>>> that don’t perform – those staff either get fired or the market rejects the
>>>>> company and the company disappears – standard market dynamics – in this
>>>>> case – if a company finds extremely talented people they may be forced into
>>>>> a position where they have to hire less skilled people because someone
>>>>> can’t meet some accreditation requirement.
>>>>> 5. The bill has no recognition of prior experience – no
>>>>> recognition of those who have published papers and are world recognized
>>>>> experts – does not specify what the “recognized” universities are – does
>>>>> not take into account industry standard certification
>>>>> (CISSP/CCNA/CCIE/CCDP/JNCIE/JN CIP/JNCIA, the list is endless)
>>>>> 6. May well end up in the constitutional court when it deprives a
>>>>> host of people who have spent their lives working in this industry and have
>>>>> no other options for a career of the ability to earn a living
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The bill relies on the belief that a university qualification some how
>>>>> makes you better than those without – it’s reasoning that has been
>>>>> disproved globally for years and years and years – and it flies in the face
>>>>> of the global industry and the way the ICT industry has worked since the
>>>>> day it began. It is damaging to the industry in Kenya – it is damaging to
>>>>> the growth prospects of the economy as a result – it is damaging to the
>>>>> people of Kenya – and it will destroy the position that Kenya is in as one
>>>>> of the leaders of the ICT industry on the continent (Kenya already has the
>>>>> highest average broadband speeds on the continent and significantly better
>>>>> ICT infrastructure than you will find even in South Africa – it is doing so
>>>>> well – why break a system that is proving functional?)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I really hope this does not pass – and if it does – will be curious to
>>>>> see the court challenges and how they play out – but I think this is
>>>>> madness personally – and in the name of stopping a few bad individuals –
>>>>> penalizes the entire country and will destroy an industry that employs
>>>>> thousands.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrew
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+andre w.alston
>>>>> <kictanet-bounces%2Bandrew.alston>=liquidtelecom.com at lis
>>>>> ts.kictanet.or.ke <liquidtelecom.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke>] *On
>>>>> Behalf Of *Liz Wanjiru via kictanet
>>>>> *Sent:* 04 December 2017 06:43
>>>>> *To:* Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.c om
>>>>> <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>
>>>>> *Cc:* Liz Wanjiru <lizwanjiru at gmail.com>
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] ict practitioners bill is back
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> While trying to push such laws shouldn't they be looking at
>>>>> credentialing people without formal ICT schooling but have the experience,
>>>>> knowledge and skills to back them? These people have talent and positively
>>>>> contribute in the industry. Some countries have learning institutions
>>>>> credentialing professionals based on their body of work and so long as they
>>>>> can demonstrate this they are awarded the degrees or other government
>>>>> approved certifications. Here is an example of such
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Link
>>>>> <http://www.ara.ac.nz/study-options/centre-for-assessment-of-prior-learning-capl>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Liz
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 3:18 PM, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <
>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder how some of the ground breaking technology companies - such
>>>>> as for instance Google Kenya, can operate if this bill is passed.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 4:57 PM, Watila Alex via kictanet <
>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> EricKigada: Kenya’s controversial ICT Practitioners Bill 2016 to be tabled in parliament again
>>>>>
>>>>> techmoran.com/kenyas-controv…
>>>>>
>>>>> https://twitter.com/EricKigada /status/937309893954031616 <https://twitter.com/EricKigada/status/937309893954031616>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>>>>> <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>>> kictanet mailing list
>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m ailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>>> <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
>>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
>>>>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTA Net/
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
>>>>> ailman/options/kictanet/ultima teprogramer%40gmail.com
>>>>> <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ultimateprogramer%40gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
>>>>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
>>>>> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>>>
>>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>>>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> *Ahmed Maawy*
>>>>> Head of Corporate Products - Al Jazeera Media Network
>>>>> Skype: ultimateprogramer
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>>> kictanet mailing list
>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m ailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>>> <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
>>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
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>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
>>>>> ailman/options/kictanet/lizwan jiru%40gmail.com
>>>>> <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lizwanjiru%40gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
>>>>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
>>>>> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>>>
>>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>>>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind Regards
>>>>>
>>>>> Liz Wanjiru
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>>> kictanet mailing list
>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m ailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>>> <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
>>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
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>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
>>>>> ailman/options/kictanet/joe%40 mucheru.com
>>>>> <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/joe%40mucheru.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
>>>>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
>>>>> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>>>
>>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>>>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Joseph Mucheru E.G.H
>>>>> *Cabinet Secretary*
>>>>> Ministry of Information Communications & Technology (ICT)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>>> kictanet mailing list
>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m ailman/listinfo/kictanet
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>>>>>
>>>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
>>>>> ailman/options/kictanet/njirai ni2001%40gmail.com
>>>>> <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/njiraini2001%40gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
>>>>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
>>>>> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>>>
>>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>>>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>>> kictanet mailing list
>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m ailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>>> <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
>>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
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>>>>>
>>>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
>>>>> ailman/options/kictanet/info%4 0campusciti.com
>>>>> <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40campusciti.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
>>>>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
>>>>> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>>>
>>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>>>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>>> kictanet mailing list
>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m ailman/listinfo/kictanet
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>>>>>
>>>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
>>>>> ailman/options/kictanet/joe%40 mucheru.com
>>>>> <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/joe%40mucheru.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
>>>>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
>>>>> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>>>
>>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>>>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>>> kictanet mailing list
>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m ailman/listinfo/kictanet
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>>>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
>>>>> ailman/options/kictanet/info%4 0alyhussein.com
>>>>> <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
>>>>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
>>>>> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>>>
>>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>>>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>>> kictanet mailing list
>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m ailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>>> <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
>>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
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>>>>>
>>>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
>>>>> ailman/options/kictanet/tespok %40tespok.co.ke
>>>>> <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/tespok%40tespok.co.ke>
>>>>>
>>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
>>>>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
>>>>> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>>>
>>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>>>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>>> kictanet mailing list
>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m ailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>>> <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
>>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
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>>>>>
>>>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
>>>>> ailman/options/kictanet/ultima teprogramer%40gmail.com
>>>>> <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ultimateprogramer%40gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
>>>>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
>>>>> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>>>
>>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>>>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *Ahmed Maawy*
>>>>> Head of Corporate Products - Al Jazeera Media Network
>>>>> Skype: ultimateprogramer
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>>> kictanet mailing list
>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m ailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>>> <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
>>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
>>>>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTA Net/
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
>>>>> ailman/options/kictanet/lizore mbo%40gmail.com
>>>>> <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lizorembo%40gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
>>>>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
>>>>> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>>>
>>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>>>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards.
>>>>> Liz.
>>>>>
>>>>> PGP ID: 0x1F3488BF
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>>> kictanet mailing list
>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/ mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>>> <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
>>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
>>>>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ KICTANet/
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/
>>>>> mailman/options/kictanet/info% 40alyhussein.com
>>>>> <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
>>>>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
>>>>> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>>>
>>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>>>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>>> kictanet mailing list
>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/ mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>>> <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
>>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
>>>>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ KICTANet/
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/
>>>>> mailman/options/kictanet/ nmutungu%40gmail.com
>>>>> <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/nmutungu%40gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
>>>>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
>>>>> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>>>
>>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>>>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> kictanet mailing list
>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
>>>>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
>>>>>
>>>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
>>>>> ailman/options/kictanet/gertrudematata%40yahoo.com
>>>>>
>>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
>>>>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
>>>>> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>>>
>>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>>>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> kictanet mailing list
>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
>>>>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
>>>>>
>>>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
>>>>> ailman/options/kictanet/vkapiyo%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
>>>>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
>>>>> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>>>
>>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>>>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> kictanet mailing list
>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
>>>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
>>>>
>>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
>>>> ailman/options/kictanet/arebacollins%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>>>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>>
>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> kictanet mailing list
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
>>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
>>> ailman/options/kictanet/kevin.kamonye%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>
>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kictanet mailing list
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
>>
>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
>> ailman/options/kictanet/jeffersonanyega%40gmail.com
>>
>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Anyega M Jefferson
>
> jeffersonanyega at gmail.com
>
> 0703824326
>
> Start where you are,use what you have and do what you can.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kictanet mailing list
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
>
> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/
> mailman/options/kictanet/josiah.mugambi%40gmail.com
>
> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>
>
--
Josiah Mugambi
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