[kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats

Walubengo J jwalu at yahoo.com
Wed May 11 16:27:14 EAT 2016 

@Watila,
the big point again is '3rd Party'.
KRA may/can bust into Safaricom or any other business premise anytime.
But when they do so, they can only carry data relating to Safaricom business.  Not Safaricom's customer data.
Examples:They can ask Agha-khan Hospital to account for their invoices/reciepts. But I would be scared if Agha-khan starts giving them my medical records (My name, which doctor I saw, what I am suffering from, etc).
They can ask MMU to account for student fees (invoices/receipts). But I would be very suprised if the Accountant starts giving them student names, class registers and CAT marks.
In short, there is a difference between data owned by the business entity (which KRA has express right to access) and data which the business collects about you in the course of their work  (which belongs to you and KRA cannot /should not get it through that  business entity but from you - unless permitted to do so by a court order).

walu.

      From: Alex Watila <awatila at yahoo.co.uk>
 To: 'Walubengo J' <jwalu at yahoo.com>; 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> 
 Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 4:09 PM
 Subject: RE: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats
   
#yiv3552560940 #yiv3552560940 -- _filtered #yiv3552560940 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3552560940 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3552560940 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3552560940 {font-family:Verdana;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv3552560940 #yiv3552560940 p.yiv3552560940MsoNormal, #yiv3552560940 li.yiv3552560940MsoNormal, #yiv3552560940 div.yiv3552560940MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv3552560940 a:link, #yiv3552560940 span.yiv3552560940MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3552560940 a:visited, #yiv3552560940 span.yiv3552560940MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3552560940 span.yiv3552560940EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv3552560940 span.yiv3552560940apple-converted-space {}#yiv3552560940 .yiv3552560940MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv3552560940 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv3552560940 div.yiv3552560940WordSection1 {}#yiv3552560940 Walu,It may be possible that the current KRA act already allows them to do that.   For example from the kra website  http://www.revenue.go.ke/index.php/domestic-taxes/vat/power-of-the-commissioner  they indicate they already have the following powers under the VAT act  (a) To enter business premises without any warrant during normal working hours or at any time when there is evidence of fraud. (b) To examine premises, books, documents and records (c) To have and exercise all the rights, powers, privileges and protection of a police officer.   Regards,  From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+awatila=yahoo.co.uk at lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Walubengo J via kictanet
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 8:36 AM
To: awatila at yahoo.co.uk
Cc: Walubengo J <jwalu at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats  @Njogu, @Kivuva,  Do not miss the big point. Which is that KRA has no authority (in the absence of Data Protection Act) to seek data from Safaricom, belonging to Safaricom clients - whether merchants, consumers or otherwise.  KRA has ofcourse every right to seek the said data directly from the merchants or consumers (data owners) for that matter.  Its a slippery path as some have alluded to. Soon KRA will be going to your hospital to demand data on how big your medical bill was for the last financial year - in order to estimated your net worth and compare that with what you declared in your tax returns.  Further they will visit the private school where you kids go to school and demand how much school fees you have paid for your 3kids over the last financial year and do the same algorithm.  Finally, they will visit your bank,  local pub, gym and whatnot  and demand the same information.  This is all good for KRA, but hey, this data does NOT belong to the hospital, the private school, the local pub or gym. It belongs to YOU. These other entities are simply data custodians and have no right to share your data with NSIS, KRA, or even your wife :-)    walu.  From: Lawrence Njogu via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
To: jwalu at yahoo.com 
Cc: Lawrence Njogu <lnjogu at hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2016 11:03 PM
Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats  I agree Mwendwa.. This is tapping the aggregated vendors data at the SafariCom Paybill platform...and no consumer data aggregation is required.> Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 20:40:35 +0300
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats
> From: kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> CC: Kivuva at transworldafrica.com
> To: lnjogu at hotmail.com
> 
> 1. Paybill platform already has a VAT module that can be activated at
> any time by Safaricom. The equivalent of Paybill is your organisation
> Point of Sale or better still ERP.
> 2. Small players don't need to worry as far as VAT is concerned. If
> your annual turnover is below five million Kenyan shillings, you are
> not required to register for VAT
> 
> On 10/05/2016, Tony White via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> > Don't forget - KRA already collects tax on m-pesa transactions - if
> > Bob is listening here, perhaps he can tell us just how much this is!
> >
> > There is also the question of how much time and effort is spent (at
> > what cost to the taxpayer!) chasing after all the small 'Lipa na
> > m-pesa' dukas.
> >
> > There is a point where some taxes are not worth collecting - ie.
> > costing more to administer and collect than the amount collected -
> > case in point - road tax
> >
> > Does KRA already have powers, without notice, to examine our bank
> > transaction records? Neither should they get into mobile money
> > transactions without a court order!
> >
> > Cheers from a very wet Kwale County ;)
> >
> >
> > On 10/05/2016, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet
> > <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >> Thinking exactly the same thing.. Ali.
> >>
> >> It is extremely surprising to me that the privacy issue has not been
> >> mentioned at all in all this. Even in the article. As Kenyans we tend to
> >> not understand how crucial privacy is. Especially in the context of what
> >> is
> >> going to go on here.
> >>
> >> This is the exact same issue that has put governments in the west at a
> >> great pain to explain their *secretive* involvement in yet here we are
> >> comfortably going *public* about it.
> >>
> >> On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <
> >> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >>
> >>> ​This is a great initiative to expand the tax bracket. Im just curious
> >>> how
> >>> this will be achieved considering the slippery slope that will be
> >>> encountered on Privacy issues.​
> >>>
> >>> *Ali Hussein*
> >>>
> >>> *Principal*
> >>>
> >>> *Hussein & Associates*
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Tel: +254 713 601113
> >>>
> >>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
> >>>
> >>> Skype: abu-jomo
> >>>
> >>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
> >>> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely
> >>> mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the
> >>> organizations that I work with.
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Grace Githaiga via kictanet <
> >>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> @Grace B, do we have a law that would facilitate this? Or is KRA being
> >>>> over enthusiastic? How much would they really net in guys transacting a
> >>>> few
> >>>> thousands?
> >>>>
> >>>> ------------------------------
> >>>> Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 14:09:05 +0300
> >>>> Subject: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats
> >>>> From: kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> >>>> CC: nmutungu at gmail.com
> >>>> To: ggithaiga at hotmail.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Listers,
> >>>>
> >>>> KRA is targeting mobile money as part of the agency’s financial data
> >>>> gathering scheme that is meant to monitor businesses and individuals who
> >>>> are not paying their fair share of taxes.
> >>>>
> >>>> People familiar with the plan said the taxman is at an advanced stage of
> >>>> rolling out a number crunching mechanism that will use electronic data
> >>>> to
> >>>> suggest incomes of those using mobile money to pay bills and make
> >>>> purchases.
> >>>>
> >>>> Full article here:
> >>>> http://www.nation.co.ke/business/KRA-radical-plan-to-catch-tax-cheats/-/996/3196496/-/brq96h/-/index.html
> >>>> --
> >>>> Grace L.N. Mutung'u
> >>>> Nairobi Kenya
> >>>> Skype: gracebomu
> >>>> Twitter: @Bomu
> >>>>
> >>>> <http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu>
> >>>>
> >>>> PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list
> >>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> >>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or
> >>>> change your options at
> >>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.com
> >>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> >>>> for
> >>>> people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> >>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> >>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
> >>>> development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of
> >>>> acceptable
> >>>> behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times
> >>>> and
> >>>> bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
> >>>> privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> kictanet mailing list
> >>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> >>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> >>>>
> >>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at
> >>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com
> >>>>
> >>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> >>>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> >>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> >>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
> >>>> development.
> >>>>
> >>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> >>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
> >>>> bandwidth,
> >>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy,
> >>>> do
> >>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> kictanet mailing list
> >>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> >>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> >>>
> >>> Unsubscribe or change your options at
> >>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ultimateprogramer%40gmail.com
> >>>
> >>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> >>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> >>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> >>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
> >>> development.
> >>>
> >>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> >>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
> >>> bandwidth,
> >>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> >>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> *Ahmed Maawy*
> >> Executive Director - SwahiliBox / M-Power (CBO)
> >> Ambassador - Open Knowledge
> >> Director - Startup Grind Mombasa
> >> Software Developer - AJ+ / EveryLayer
> >> (KE) +254 714 960 627
> >> Skype: ultimateprogramer
> >>
> >> swahilibox.co.ke
> >> www.okfn.org <http://okfn.org/>
> >> startupgrind.com
> >> ajplus.net
> >> www.everylayer.com
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Tony White
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kictanet mailing list
> > kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> > https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> >
> > Unsubscribe or change your options at
> > https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kivuva%40transworldafrica.com
> >
> > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for
> > people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> > regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> > sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
> >
> > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> > online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> > share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> > not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
> 
> 
> -- 
> ______________________
> Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya
> twitter.com/lordmwesh
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kictanet mailing list
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> 
> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lnjogu%40hotmail.com
> 
> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
> 
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.  _______________________________________________
kictanet mailing list
kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet

Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com

The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.  

  
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/pipermail/kictanet/attachments/20160511/cc989d31/attachment.htm>

More information about the KICTANet mailing list