[kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats

Wed May 11 16:26:04 EAT 2016

I think we are forgetting one thing here.

This is data mining for the masses. Not an individual business. In this
specific case, there is a very fine line between investigating the books of
a business and mass surveillance.

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Alex Watila via kictanet <
kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

> Safaricom is actually a state corporation since the government has
> shareholding.
>
> They can argue it’s a government department sharing information with
> another government department.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+awatila=
> yahoo.co.uk at lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *James Kagwe via kictanet
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 11, 2016 1:43 PM
> *To:* awatila at yahoo.co.uk
> *Cc:* James Kagwe <kagwejg at gmail.com>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats
>
>
>
> Just curious. Safaricom already has all this data. Is it that violation of
> privacy will happen when the data is transferred to KRA? Is it that we
> trust Safaricom more than government? I guess by the mere fact that we
> embrace technology and use it to achieve all our daily activities privacy
> in the sense we are discussing diminishes.
>
> Rgds,
> James Kagwe
>
> On May 11, 2016 12:55 PM, "Lawrence Njogu via kictanet" <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
> In the absence of a legislation that governs the protection of personal
> data, entities will use their power to seek data from any source in order
> to fulfill their mandate. Although Kenya has a data protection bill, it
> does not provide guidance on what is meant by consent, and the legitimate
> grounds individuals can raise to object the processing of their data. This
> is also a wake up call for all of us......
>
> In this case, KRA is driven by the will to demand tax compliance from
> merchants, and that is why they are currently focusing on payroll
> transactions that are aggregated through Mpesa platform.
>
> @Walu As you mentioned, KRA has the right to seek data directly from the
> merchants..and that is exactly what they are doing.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 05:35:35 +0000
> From: jwalu at yahoo.com
> To: kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> CC: lnjogu at hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats
>
> @Njogu, @Kivuva,
>
>
>
> Do not miss the big point. Which is that KRA has no authority (in the
> absence of Data Protection Act) to seek data from Safaricom, belonging to
> Safaricom clients - whether merchants, consumers or otherwise.
>
>
>
> KRA has ofcourse every right to seek the said data directly from the
> merchants or consumers (data owners) for that matter.
>
>
>
> Its a slippery path as some have alluded to. Soon KRA will be going to
> your hospital to demand data on how big your medical bill was for the last
> financial year - in order to estimated your net worth and compare that with
> what you declared in your tax returns.
>
>
>
> Further they will visit the private school where you kids go to school and
> demand how much school fees you have paid for your 3kids over the last
> financial year and do the same algorithm.
>
>
>
> Finally, they will visit your bank,  local pub, gym and whatnot  and
> demand the same information.
>
>
>
> This is all good for KRA, but hey, this data does NOT belong to the
> hospital, the private school, the local pub or gym. It belongs to YOU.
> These other entities are simply data custodians and have no right to share
> your data with NSIS, KRA, or even your wife :-)
>
>
>
>
>
> walu.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Lawrence Njogu via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> *To:* jwalu at yahoo.com
> *Cc:* Lawrence Njogu <lnjogu at hotmail.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 10, 2016 11:03 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats
>
>
>
> I agree Mwendwa.. This is tapping the aggregated vendors data at the
> SafariCom Paybill platform...and no consumer data aggregation is required.
>
> > Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 20:40:35 +0300
> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats
> > From: kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> > CC: Kivuva at transworldafrica.com
> > To: lnjogu at hotmail.com
> >
> > 1. Paybill platform already has a VAT module that can be activated at
> > any time by Safaricom. The equivalent of Paybill is your organisation
> > Point of Sale or better still ERP.
> > 2. Small players don't need to worry as far as VAT is concerned. If
> > your annual turnover is below five million Kenyan shillings, you are
> > not required to register for VAT
> >
> > On 10/05/2016, Tony White via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> wrote:
> > > Don't forget - KRA already collects tax on m-pesa transactions - if
> > > Bob is listening here, perhaps he can tell us just how much this is!
> > >
> > > There is also the question of how much time and effort is spent (at
> > > what cost to the taxpayer!) chasing after all the small 'Lipa na
> > > m-pesa' dukas.
> > >
> > > There is a point where some taxes are not worth collecting - ie.
> > > costing more to administer and collect than the amount collected -
> > > case in point - road tax
> > >
> > > Does KRA already have powers, without notice, to examine our bank
> > > transaction records? Neither should they get into mobile money
> > > transactions without a court order!
> > >
> > > Cheers from a very wet Kwale County ;)
> > >
> > >
> > > On 10/05/2016, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet
> > > <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> > >> Thinking exactly the same thing.. Ali.
> > >>
> > >> It is extremely surprising to me that the privacy issue has not been
> > >> mentioned at all in all this. Even in the article. As Kenyans we tend
> to
> > >> not understand how crucial privacy is. Especially in the context of
> what
> > >> is
> > >> going to go on here.
> > >>
> > >> This is the exact same issue that has put governments in the west at a
> > >> great pain to explain their *secretive* involvement in yet here we are
> > >> comfortably going *public* about it.
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <
> > >> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> This is a great initiative to expand the tax bracket. Im just
> curious
> > >>> how
> > >>> this will be achieved considering the slippery slope that will be
> > >>> encountered on Privacy issues.
> > >>>
> > >>> *Ali Hussein*
> > >>>
> > >>> *Principal*
> > >>>
> > >>> *Hussein & Associates*
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Tel: +254 713 601113
> > >>>
> > >>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
> > >>>
> > >>> Skype: abu-jomo
> > >>>
> > >>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
> > >>> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are
> purely
> > >>> mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the
> > >>> organizations that I work with.
> > >>>
> > >>> On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Grace Githaiga via kictanet <
> > >>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> @Grace B, do we have a law that would facilitate this? Or is KRA
> being
> > >>>> over enthusiastic? How much would they really net in guys
> transacting a
> > >>>> few
> > >>>> thousands?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> ------------------------------
> > >>>> Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 14:09:05 +0300
> > >>>> Subject: [kictanet] KRA's radical plan to catch tax cheats
> > >>>> From: kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> > >>>> CC: nmutungu at gmail.com
> > >>>> To: ggithaiga at hotmail.com
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Listers,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> KRA is targeting mobile money as part of the agency’s financial data
> > >>>> gathering scheme that is meant to monitor businesses and
> individuals who
> > >>>> are not paying their fair share of taxes.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> People familiar with the plan said the taxman is at an advanced
> stage of
> > >>>> rolling out a number crunching mechanism that will use electronic
> data
> > >>>> to
> > >>>> suggest incomes of those using mobile money to pay bills and make
> > >>>> purchases.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Full article here:
> > >>>>
> http://www.nation.co.ke/business/KRA-radical-plan-to-catch-tax-cheats/-/996/3196496/-/brq96h/-/index.html
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> Grace L.N. Mutung'u
> > >>>> Nairobi Kenya
> > >>>> Skype: gracebomu
> > >>>> Twitter: @Bomu
> > >>>>
> > >>>> <http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
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> > >>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
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> ICT
> > >>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
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> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> *Ahmed Maawy*
> > >> Executive Director - SwahiliBox / M-Power (CBO)
> > >> Ambassador - Open Knowledge
> > >> Director - Startup Grind Mombasa
> > >> Software Developer - AJ+ / EveryLayer
> > >> (KE) +254 714 960 627
> > >> Skype: ultimateprogramer
> > >>
> > >> swahilibox.co.ke
> > >> www.okfn.org <http://okfn.org/>
> > >> startupgrind.com
> > >> ajplus.net
> > >> www.everylayer.com
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Tony White
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> > > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
> platform for
> > > people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> > > regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> > > sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
> development.
> > >
> > > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> > > online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
> bandwidth,
> > > share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy,
> do
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> >
> >
> > --
> > ______________________
> > Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya
> > twitter.com/lordmwesh
> >
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>
> >
> > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
> >
> > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Unsubscribe or change your options at
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>
> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Unsubscribe or change your options at
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>
> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> Unsubscribe or change your options at
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>
> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>

-- 
*Ahmed Maawy*
Executive Director - SwahiliBox / M-Power (CBO)
Ambassador - Open Knowledge
Director - Startup Grind Mombasa
Software Developer - AJ+ / EveryLayer
(KE) +254 714 960 627
Skype: ultimateprogramer

swahilibox.co.ke
www.okfn.org <http://okfn.org/>
startupgrind.com
ajplus.net
www.everylayer.com
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