[kictanet] KENYA ICT PRACTITIONERS BILL NOW IN PARLIAMENT, PAY XXX PER YEAR FOR LICENSE TO PRACTICE
Gideon
gideonrop at gmail.com
Wed Jul 6 08:48:08 EAT 2016
Kivuva +1,
I think ICT in itself is a very disruptive phenomenon and also an
environment that rapidly goes through incredible changes within a short
period. I also think most people then can be regarded as ICT practitioners
by virtue of daily use of computers, smart devices etc. As much as people
go to school to learn it as a profession, most have earned skills through
daily use of the technology and may not necessarily have a certificate to
show.
Therefore this bill therefore may not be well advised.
Kind regards
GR
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:34 AM, <kictanet-request at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
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> 1. Re:
>
> KENYA ICT PRACTITIONERS BILL NOW IN PARLIAMENT, PAY XXX
> PER YEAR FOR LICENSE TO PRACTICE (Stellar Murumba)
> 2. Re: Kenya's ICT Practioners Bill: Pay 46K per year for
> license to practice! (Liz Orembo)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 08:23:21 +0300
> From: Stellar Murumba <nstellarnelly at gmail.com>
> To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] KENYA ICT PRACTITIONERS BILL NOW IN
> PARLIAMENT, PAY XXX PER YEAR FOR LICENSE TO PRACTICE
> Message-ID: <11E285B2-84BF-4246-889F-B52725383D49 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Haha I like this one Ahmed. If someone can still deliver to the core even
> without a degree, does his level of education really matter? Convince me...
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 6 Jul 2016, at 6:25 AM, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >
> > This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke) Add cleanup rule | More info
> > Perhaps the other simple question should be: If this was to happen.
> Shouldn't the ICT Ministry and ICT Authority get directly involved?
> >
> > I also have one more concern. With the technology arena, why are we
> going back to hacking Degrees and Diplomas as a pre-requisite to be a fully
> qualified practitioner? No offence, but doesn't that disqualify Bill Gates
> and Steve Jobs?
> >
> >> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:21 AM, Erick Mwangi via kictanet <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >> Wow seems this has morphed tremendously..
> >>
> >> I agree re-Twitter, it will create the necessary traction needed.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Eric
> >>
> >>> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 9:01 PM, Dennis Muthuri via kictanet <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >>> Hi Listers,
> >>>
> >>> If you desire to take this to Twitter in protest, kindly use the
> hashtag #KillTheICTBill
> >>>
> >>> Thanks Mr Mwendwa for those sentiments. Very insightful.
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>>
> >>>> On 5 Jul 2016, at 10:44 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva <
> Kivuva at transworldafrica.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Well, I have read the bill so that I cannot say "nilisomewa". It's
> quite short and I encourage everybody who is affected by it to read it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Some preliminary issues on the Bill after reading it:
> >>>> 1. There is established an ICT Practitioners Institute
> >>>> 2. Information Communication Technology Association of Kenya
> nominates 5 people on the Board of the Institute. How many guys here are
> members of the ICT Association? Is it the bonafide body to represent all
> ICT practitioners in Kenya?
> >>>> 3. All ICT practitioners must be registered and licensed as ICT
> practitioners on payment of annual fees.
> >>>> 4. You must have a Diploma or Degree to qualify for registration as
> an ICT partitioner. Just think about Bill Gates and Zuckerberg. Non of them
> graduated from college, but they changed the world in their own small way.
> >>>> 5. You must have five years experience to practice ICT.
> >>>> 5. The example of Bill Gates and Zuckerberg is the best yet, of
> permission-less innovation
> >>>> 6. A person shall not operate an ICT firm unless it is registered by
> the Institute and has paid annual membership.
> >>>> 7. A person shall not be entitled to recover a fee for ICT services,
> unless such person is licensed under this Act.
> >>>>
> >>>> So my mechanic diagnoses my car using a computer, and does
> computerised wheel balancing. They may now be prepared to get licensed.
> >>>>
> >>>> Well this bill affects all techies and consultants alike. The bill
> makes it illegal to practice your trade without being licensed. It's
> preposterous at best, morally criminal maybe. It locks out opportunities
> for the young passionate innovators who do wonders without ever stepping in
> college. ICT allows these young fellows permission-less innovation. They
> sit behind a computer and write beautiful code that changes the world. It
> is heart-aching that those who thrived in an open dynamic ICT environment
> in Kenya now want to lock up the industry as a preserve of the few.
> Washindwe kabisa.
> >>>>
> >>>> Well, the constitutions allows enough consultation before any bill is
> passed in parliament. If you feel your interests are not taken care by the
> new bill, then now is the time to raise your voice or forever keep your
> cool. We will deliver our petition to the relevant offices.
> >>>>
> >>>> Peace.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ______________________
> >>>> Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya
> >>>> twitter.com/lordmwesh
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 5 July 2016 at 22:16, Dennis Muthuri via kictanet <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >>>>> Hi Listers,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This is a google doc(
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lZ8m3WSH2JQSzTMBC8bkLRH8y2zzjyM9TzuUhGzOW0s/edit)
> that has been created by Nanjira(https://twitter.com/NiNanjira). Kindly
> fill it with all questions you have regarding the Bill.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Dennis Muthuri Mburugu
> >>>>> Skype: dennis.muthuri | Tel: +(254)714590654
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> kictanet mailing list
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> >>>>>
> >>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
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> >>>
> >>> Dennis Muthuri Mburugu
> >>> Skype: dennis.muthuri | Tel: +(254)714590654
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
> >>>
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> >>
> >>
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> >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
> >>
> >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ahmed Maawy
> > Executive Director - SwahiliBox / M-Power (CBO)
> > Curator - Global Shapers Mombasa Hub
> > Ambassador - Open Knowledge
> > Director - Startup Grind Mombasa
> > Software Developer - AJ+ / EveryLayer
> > (KE) +254 714 960 627
> > Skype: ultimateprogramer
> >
> > swahilibox.co.ke
> > globalshapers.org
> > www.okfn.org
> > startupgrind.com
> > ajplus.net
> > www.everylayer.com
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
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> >
> > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
> >
> > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 08:29:23 +0300
> From: Liz Orembo <lizorembo at gmail.com>
> To: "ngethe.kariuki2007" <ngethe.kariuki2007 at yahoo.co.uk>, KICTAnet
> ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kenya's ICT Practioners Bill: Pay 46K per year
> for license to practice!
> Message-ID:
> <CAHHjpePTnBynD0T9o+5aF-+WMRvCO8711Z_=
> zP36ky012T+91w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Way forward is, we don't need such a bill in this time and era.Especially
> when we should be concerned with dearth of access, content and information
> gap.
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:04 AM, ngethe.kariuki2007 via kictanet <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
> > Listers,
> > If anyone has access to a legal definition of ICT, internationally
> > recognised, please share on the list so that we can all move forward
> with a
> > common understanding.
> >
> > John Kariuki.
> >
> >
> > Sent from Samsung Mobile
> >
> >
> >
> > -------- Original message --------
> > From: Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> > Date:
> > To: ngethe.kariuki2007 at yahoo.co.uk
> > Cc: Ahmed Mohamed Maawy <ultimateprogramer at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kenya's ICT Practioners Bill: Pay 46K per year
> for
> > license to practice!
> >
> >
> > As if its not enough to go to a University to pay to get a degree.
> >
> > Historically every red-taped innovation company has failed in its own
> > inability to Innovate. We do not need to go any further than companies
> like
> > BlackBerry who's app store approval process sometimes even took ages.
> They
> > ended up selling off after being corporate giants with a force to recon,
> > because less red-taped innovation outfits came up (iPhones and Androids).
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 8:48 PM, Grace Githaiga via kictanet <
> > kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >
> >> Listers
> >>
> >> I have changed the subject of this thread to its rightful title, since
> >> this discussion is not based on the Draft ICT Policy.
> >>
> >> The Kenya ICT Practitioners Bill 2016 is currently in Parliament. It has
> >> interesting proposals for example to have an Institute that will
> register
> >> and license ICT practitioners on payment of the prescribed fees. Read
> the
> >> draft bill here:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> http://kenyalaw.org/kl/fileadmin/pdfdownloads/bills/2016/InformationCommunicationTechnologyPractitioners_Bill_2016.pdf
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >> Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2016 20:18:12 +0300
> >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] FW: [nairobilug] Draft National ICT policy
> >> From: kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> >> CC: arebacollins at gmail.com
> >> To: ggithaiga at hotmail.com
> >>
> >> Skunkworks should regulate ICT in kenya. J
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *From: *kictanet <kictanet-bounces+arebacollins=
> >> gmail.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke> on behalf of DigitalTVAfrica via
> >> kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> >> *Reply-To: *KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <
> >> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> >> *Date: *Tuesday, 5 July 2016 8:08 pm
> >> *To: *Collins Areba <arebacollins at gmail.com>
> >> *Cc: *DigitalTVAfrica <wainaina at DigitalTVAfrica.com>
> >> *Subject: *Re: [kictanet] FW: [nairobilug] Draft National ICT policy
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> This brings up the question of the Computer Society of Kenya (CSK) led
> by
> >> Waudo Siganga.....versus the new ICTAK led by Kamotho Njenga / Selasio
> >> Kiura.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> What was the criteria for picking which of these and any others will
> >> basically regulate the ICT "profession"?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------
> >>
> >> ICTAK
> >>
> >> "While I did not intend to comment on the contents of the Bill, I can't
> >> help but notice that one ICT Association of Kenya will have the arduous
> >> task of appointing five (out of nine) people to the Council that will
> >> regulate professionals (Section 4). Pray tell, who is this association?"
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> CSK
> >>
> >> (on their website)
> >> "The Computer Society of Kenya is the recognized association for
> >> Information, Communication and Technology industries and professionals
> in
> >> Kenya, attracting large and active membership from all levels of the IT
> >> industry and providing a wide range of services to its 6,000 + members."
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tuesday, July 5, 2016, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) via kictanet <
> >> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >>
> >> Interesting developments Alex.
> >>
> >> My initial reaction after reading the Bill is, questions questions
> >> questions:
> >>
> >> First of all, why would anyone conceive such an idea? To cure what
> >> problem? How will it better society as a whole? If indeed there was a
> >> problem to be addressed, couldn't the same have been dealt with in the
> >> policy process first? Assuming this Bill emanated from the Ministry, why
> >> would the Ministry undertake a policy review process and at the same
> time
> >> undertake a legal process to regulate the profession? And why is
> regulation
> >> of ICT professionals not even mentioned in the draft policy? We are
> always
> >> ready to engage and I am shocked to have learnt of the process so far in
> >> the day. Or did ICT professionals have a processes the outcome of which
> is
> >> this Bill?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Speaking of a profession, what is the ICT profession? I see the Bill has
> >> attempted a definition at section 2 but isn't ICTs the most dynamic and
> >> cross cutting "profession" we have? Was there a study done to support
> such
> >> a disruptive regulation of the profession? Are there other countries
> that
> >> regulate their geeks this much? So what informed this legislation?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Think of all the young people who eke a living from ICT related
> >> businesses. Why would anyone want to subject all these youth, together
> with
> >> those graduating from colleges and universities to one more hurdle
> before
> >> they can start working? Can't we leave it to the market to separate the
> >> very good practitioners from the average ones?
> >>
> >> I do not understand the Kenyan obsession with ever regulating
> >> professions. What I know is that it is expensive for parents to
> perpetually
> >> pay fees before their (overgrown) children can finally get employment.
> It
> >> is also an additional cost to businesses as they have to foot the cost
> of
> >> compliance for the various professionals they employ or outsource.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Finally, what are our legislative priorities in this sector? I would
> have
> >> thought the Data Protection framework is more urgent and maybe a Cyber
> >> Security one. While I did not intend to comment on the contents of the
> >> Bill, I can't help but notice that one ICT Association of Kenya will
> have
> >> the arduous task of appointing five (out of nine) people to the Council
> >> that will regulate professionals (Section 4). Pray tell, who is this
> >> association?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 2016-07-05 14:03 GMT+03:00 Alex Watila via kictanet <
> >> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>:
> >>
> >> FYI
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nairobi-gnu at googlegroups.com [mailto:nairobi-gnu at googlegroups.com
> ]
> >> On Behalf Of Tim Schofield
> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 11:37 AM
> >> To: nairobi-gnu at googlegroups.com
> >> Subject: Re: [nairobilug] Draft National ICT policy
> >>
> >> This could be a crushing blow to Kenya's ICT industry. If the USA had
> >> such a law then so many of their major ICT companies would never have
> >> happened. To name but 2, neither Steve Jobs nor Bill Gates gained any
> >> formal ICT qualifications, in fact neither of them passed a degree in
> >> anything. Several of the leading Linux kernel developers have no formal
> ICT
> >> training.
> >>
> >> Tim
> >>
> >> On 4 July 2016 at 14:04, Tony White <tony.mzungu at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > ...and *this*:
> >> >
> >> >
> http://kenyalaw.org/kl/fileadmin/pdfdownloads/bills/2016/InformationCo
> >>
> >> > mmunicationTechnologyPractitioners_Bill_2016.pdf
> >> >
> >> > Which was introduced in the National Assembly last week, which will
> >> > rquire all ICT 'practitioners' to be licenced (annually!!) and
> >> > registered, with examination of qualifications, and ongoing
> >> > 'training'!!
> >> >
> >> > Phew!!
> >> >
> >> > Tony
> >> >
> >> > On 04/07/2016, Ibrahim Ng'eno <eebrah at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> Y'all have seen this[1], yes?
> >> >>
> >> >> [1]
> >> >>
> http://www.information.go.ke/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Draft-Nationa
> >> >> l-ICT-Policy-20June2016.pdf
> >> >>
> >> >> -- Ibrahim
> >> >>
> >> >> --
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> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Tony White
> >> >
> >> > --
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> >>
> >>
> >> --
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> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> >> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> >> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> >> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
> development.
> >>
> >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> >> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
> bandwidth,
> >> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy,
> do
> >> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Grace L.N. Mutung'u
> >> Nairobi Kenya
> >> Skype: gracebomu
> >> Twitter: @Bomu
> >>
> >> <http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> *Watch African TV live online and learn about **Digital Television
> >> policy, regulation and technology in Africa on issues relating to
> >> Consumers, Content and Coverage.*
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list
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> >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for
> >> people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> >> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> >> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
> >> development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of
> acceptable
> >> behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times
> and
> >> bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
> >> privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list
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> >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for
> >> people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> >> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> >> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
> >> development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of
> acceptable
> >> behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times
> and
> >> bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
> >> privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> kictanet mailing list
> >> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> >> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> >>
> >> Unsubscribe or change your options at
> >>
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ultimateprogramer%40gmail.com
> >>
> >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> >> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> >> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> >> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
> development.
> >>
> >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> >> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
> bandwidth,
> >> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy,
> do
> >> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Ahmed Maawy*
> > Executive Director - SwahiliBox / M-Power (CBO)
> > Curator - Global Shapers Mombasa Hub
> > Ambassador - Open Knowledge
> > Director - Startup Grind Mombasa
> > Software Developer - AJ+ / EveryLayer
> > (KE) +254 714 960 627
> > Skype: ultimateprogramer
> >
> > swahilibox.co.ke
> > globalshapers.org
> > www.okfn.org <http://okfn.org/>
> > startupgrind.com
> > ajplus.net
> > www.everylayer.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kictanet mailing list
> > kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> > https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> >
> > Unsubscribe or change your options at
> >
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lizorembo%40gmail.com
> >
> > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> > for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> > regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> > sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
> development.
> >
> > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> > online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
> bandwidth,
> > share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> > not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> Best regards.
> Liz.
>
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