[kictanet] ICT Authority to weed out quacks
James Muendo
james at muendo.co.ke
Fri Dec 2 17:26:16 EAT 2016
Hi,
How does government intend to regulate disruption and innovation?
The good example issued of a young man with 'technology' to keep lions at
bay or the 'new' sector of Fintech, which, is a fusion of both Financial
markets and technology?
Also, where do place people like Andrew, like many of us (including myself
(although I'm in 'Ngumbaru')), operate from a position of passion and
experience gained through interest and self-teaching, rather than the
formal education side of things?
Just wondering.
Regards,
On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 5:15 PM, Collins Areba via kictanet <
kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> It's still not comforting because government wants to define an ICT
> practitioner in a certain way. Ostensibly to lock out competition using
> some criteria or another.
>
> Indeed can be argued as a telling sign of impending "government by cartel".
>
> On 2 Dec 2016 16:56, "Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet" <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
>> Thank you Paul,
>>
>> But free speech is free speech. There is no paranoia here. Only freedom
>> of expression.
>>
>> On 2 Dec 2016 4:50 p.m., "Paul Korir via kictanet" <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>
>>> Fellow Listers,
>>> (Please read through until the end before reacting.)
>>>
>>> It is unfortunate that this issue has arisen before the dust from the
>>> ICT Practioners Bill has settled. There are a lot of pent up emotions (and
>>> rightly so) associated with confronting policy corruption. This has not
>>> only affected ICT but other fields (I seem to be the only one angered by
>>> some of the sections of the Science, Technology and Innovation Act).
>>>
>>> It is also unfortunate that that the subject of this thread is
>>> misleading or incomplete at best and that the journalist who penned this
>>> piece did not take the time to dissect the issues. For example, there is no
>>> explicit statement that this applies only to government expenditure and the
>>> reference at the end is vague (“…that the government has an interest in.”)
>>>
>>> Nevertheless, government agencies have a duty to protect the public’s
>>> interests in delivering service to the people. In this case, the issue is
>>> the use of public funds (not private capital) in procuring government
>>> contracts and the ICTA is proposing regulation to this end. Please remember
>>> that the mandate of ICTA is to serve the government and not the private
>>> sector.
>>>
>>> “The Authority is tasked with rationalising and streamlining the
>>> management of all Government of Kenya ICT functions.” (from
>>> http://www.icta.go.ke/ict-authority/).
>>>
>>> To the best of my understanding (and the functions of the ICTA) the
>>> statement by the CEO have no bearing on private procurement and application
>>> of ICT to private business. This is not a move to regulate the ICT sector
>>> but to secure the procurement of ICT services in government functions. In
>>> other words, quacks are those who are stealing public funds by masquerading
>>> as ICT professionals. Now, who would be opposed to that?
>>>
>>> I think paranoia is beginning to get the better of us…
>>>
>>> Dr. Paul Korir, PhD
>>> +44 7780 283 183 <+44%207780%20283183>
>>> *Ordnung muß sein*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2 Dec 2016, at 16:11, kictanet-request at lists.kictanet.or.ke wrote:
>>>
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>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>> 1. Re: ICT Authority to weed out quacks (Ahmed Mohamed Maawy)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2016 16:09:25 +0300
>>> From: Ahmed Mohamed Maawy <ultimateprogramer at gmail.com>
>>> To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>> Cc: Collins Areba <arebacollins at gmail.com>, JImmy Gitonga
>>> <jimmygitts at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ICT Authority to weed out quacks
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <CAPZHszM0wX=0mx3asX1sP8vq3Dp0sify4yFNCxr0kK_FuqDBFQ at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>
>>> Fellows,
>>>
>>> We will be the 1st market in the history of the world to kill innovation
>>> by
>>> regulating it.
>>>
>>> According to Wikipedia *Innovation* is defined simply as a "*new idea,
>>> device, or method*". However, innovation is often also viewed as the
>>> *application
>>> of better solutions that meet new requirements, unarticulated needs*, or
>>> existing market needs. This is accomplished through more-effective
>>> products, processes, services, technologies, or business models that are
>>> readily available to markets, governments and society. The term
>>> "innovation" can be defined as something original and more effective and,
>>> as a consequence, new, that "breaks into" the market or society. It is
>>> related to, but not the same as, invention.
>>>
>>> If Innovation is related to invention. Who in the world ever invented
>>> anything under a very strict regulatory framework ?? Isn't it that we
>>> constantly talk about people who invented new things to break the norm?
>>> (including status quo in a society hell bent to set norms and standards
>>> to
>>> tell people like Thomas Edisson that he can't do a lightbulb and the
>>> Wright
>>> Brothers that they can't fly?)
>>>
>>> Again, And what school ever taught an inventor to invent anything?
>>>
>>> The kid in Maasai Mara who invented a technology to scare away lions (and
>>> got TV airtime just because someone discovered him with a mindset outside
>>> the education system) - did he ever go to school?
>>>
>>> Can we go on giving countless statements on this?
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 3:30 PM, Collins Areba via kictanet <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thank you Andrew: a true geriatric in this world. (I did my fair share of
>>> fortran 77 btw)
>>>
>>> I think the problem is clear: irregular tendering, leading in quacks
>>> being
>>> awarded tenders for one reason or another at the expense of legitimately
>>> qualified suppliers. Now, if you ask me, Thats the domain of Public
>>> Procurements Oversight Authority.
>>>
>>> Maybe the said parties should seek representation in the said authority,
>>> or maybe we should seek a common "ICT practitioners" position or
>>> checklist
>>> for the PPPOA to consider when setting rules.
>>>
>>> My 2 cents.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 3:06 PM, Kevin Kamonye via kictanet <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>
>>> My ideal scenario as regards to post secondary school;
>>>
>>> 1. Enroll for a program like NYS/ Police/ Military for at least 1 year to
>>> learn essential life skills.
>>> 2. Continue serving or get into the job market for at least 2 years doing
>>> some paid internship/apprenticeship (savings scheme for school fees )
>>> 3. Go for Undergraduate studies - Dip/Bachelor (part-time/ distance
>>> learning for non-eng. courses)
>>> 4. Back to work - start of specialisation for at least 5 years
>>> 5. Masters etc. but after a very thorough interviewing/ career review
>>> process before being enrolled to any program
>>>
>>> These certifications are in some ways hurting the industry. But I guess
>>> they are a necessary evil as the job market is flooded with people who
>>> can
>>> get the job done.
>>>
>>> Perhaps we should have a common framework that acts as a lifetime
>>> Continuous Assesment Test (CAT) for every sector of the industry that is
>>> publicly and commonly administered by selected panels for every region.
>>> Like a LinkedIN where endorsements for skills actually mean something.
>>>
>>> As for me, the industry I have been trying to break into to start my
>>> specialisation (Cyber Security OPs) seems to have a thing for seeing the
>>> entire alphabet on your CV :) This quack has thrown in the towel and am
>>> back at school (actually started my end of semester exams today).
>>>
>>> Kevin
>>>
>>> On 2 December 2016 at 14:35, JImmy Gitonga via kictanet <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>
>>> Wow Andrew,
>>>
>>> It seems that is everyone's journey here until "recently" when Computer
>>> Science became a course in our universities. I am a "quack" as much as
>>> you
>>> are.
>>>
>>> I loved the story and all the best.
>>>
>>> So, Listers, this is my take. The problem is that the government has
>>> allowed tenderpreneurs to flourish in every sector, and the experts in
>>> the
>>> government, who ought to supervise, are compromised for various reasons.
>>>
>>> We are just feeling the heat now because we are in the way of the rent
>>> seekers. Look at our mechanical engineering sector and see the chaos
>>> caused
>>> by "regulation".
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Jimmy Gitonga
>>> *Web and Motion*
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 2:12 PM, <kictanet-request at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>> wrote:
>>>
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>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>> 1. Re: ICT Authority to weed out quacks (Andrew Alston)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2016 11:10:41 +0000
>>> From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
>>> To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ICT Authority to weed out quacks
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <AMSPR03MB534A8D637B9580FA82CDF1AEE8E0 at AMSPR03MB534.eurprd03
>>> .prod.outlook.com>
>>>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I wade into this debate with a great degree of caution, but at the same
>>> time I feel it would be amiss not to tell my own story ? and let you
>>> judge
>>> my stance from that.
>>>
>>> When I was 12 years old, living in South Africa, I walked door to door
>>> at every computer shop in the town I lived in, begging for a chance to
>>> help
>>> out in the stores ? I didn?t want money ? I wanted to be near the
>>> machines. There was a guy, interestingly he shared my first name, and
>>> decided he?d give me a chance, and so at 12 years old I started showing
>>> up
>>> on Saturdays and installing dos on machines and installing windows 3.1
>>> and
>>> hanging around their workshop. By the time I was 13, I was putting
>>> together machines for them. They were even kind enough to give me the
>>> equivalent of 140 KSH for a Saturday morning.
>>>
>>> Somewhere along the way, I got hold of a copy of turbo pascal and
>>> begged pleaded and borrowed some manuals and taught myself how to
>>> program,
>>> first in pascal, and then in assembler. By the time I was 16, I was then
>>> faced with a choice. I could stick with high school, finish, leave at
>>> the
>>> same time as everyone else, go to universities, spend years getting a
>>> degree, and then enter the job market at the same time as all my school
>>> friends. Or, due to the age of the industry and how new it was where I
>>> was
>>> growing up, I could leave school, get a job, and get a 2 and a half year
>>> experience head start on everyone I was at school with. I made my
>>> choice,
>>> and in around March, 3 months into grade 10, I clearly remember getting
>>> up
>>> in the middle of science class, and walking out. I never went back.
>>>
>>> By the time I left though, I had already organized myself a job,
>>> relying on the experience I had working in computer stores for the
>>> previous
>>> 3 and a half odd years, and relying on the fact that I could already
>>> program. So, I got on a bus, at age 16, travelled a thousand kilometres
>>> down to Cape Town and started my working life. Over the next few years,
>>> I
>>> worked my ass off, earned just enough money to keep me afloat, and
>>> eventually started my own IT security company, got defrauded, went broke
>>> as
>>> a result, got up, and started again. Eventually ending up working for
>>> the
>>> University of Cape Town in their IT department. While there I started
>>> moonlighting for TENET (the South African academic network), and
>>> eventually
>>> ended up as their CTO where I was for 6 years. After leaving there and
>>> doing a whole bunch of contracting (primarily for various universities),
>>> I
>>> took a contract with Liquid which eventually ended up becoming permanent
>>> and I ended up where I am today, in a senior position building networks
>>> across the continent.
>>>
>>> The point of this story is ? there are individuals out there who have
>>> chosen a different route ? I am not alone in the path I took, and I am
>>> not
>>> special, I was not born to wealth and honestly I don?t think I could have
>>> afforded to go to University anyway ? my parents certainly didn?t have
>>> the
>>> money to pay for it, nor was I born with insane brain power, I merely
>>> chose
>>> to find my own path and work hard to reach the heights I have. And in
>>> all
>>> of this ? I fail to see why any system should penalize people such as
>>> myself, and indirectly penalize the people who I could share my knowledge
>>> and experience with. I fail to see why a qualification actually matters
>>> if
>>> someone can *prove* they can do the job ? and do it well, with an equal
>>> amount of passion, drive and skill, however it was acquired.
>>>
>>> Obviously, this post is written from an intensely personal perspective,
>>> but I argue that there are many who shared the path I chose to walk, and
>>> I
>>> believe that anything that removes the ability of these people to
>>> contribute to society and to our industry, is unfair, dangerous and
>>> against
>>> the interests of the industry as a whole.
>>>
>>> I know that I am PROUD to work in this industry, it is with pride that
>>> I stand among my colleagues, both Kenyan and otherwise, both certified
>>> and
>>> non-certified, and I just want the opportunity to continue the work I
>>> have
>>> dedicated the last 21 years of my life to and continue to build this
>>> industry and be able to contribute.
>>>
>>> Just my thoughts
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>>
>>> From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+andrew.alston=
>>> liquidtelecom.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Dorcas Muthoni
>>> via kictanet
>>> Sent: 02 December 2016 11:53
>>> To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
>>> Cc: Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ICT Authority to weed out quacks
>>>
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, judging from my experience, both in public and private
>>> sector, HR and top IT management do indeed either get it wrong, lack
>>> ability or sometimes objectivity while onboarding vendors or staff.
>>>
>>> In which case, industry professionals can help in defining a criteria
>>> for all. This of course should also be shared with tertiary institutions
>>> and universities.
>>>
>>> As we know, new professions are being defined daily. Some core
>>> fundamentals remain the same.
>>>
>>> On Dec 2, 2016 11:27 AM, "Francis Nderitu via kictanet" <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>>> wrote:
>>> In my own view this kind of vetting they are asking for should be
>>> institutional but not individual - which is already happening naturally.
>>> Does Company A have the capacity to offer service XYZ? That kind of
>>> approach could be helpful, just like in the construction industry,
>>> diffrent
>>> companies have diffrent clearance level.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 11:03 AM, Nelson J kwaje via kictanet <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> @James,
>>>
>>> I like how people are open minded about ICT professional. it is okay
>>> to be a drop out, it is okay to not have any qualifications, just have
>>> passion and be good at what you do.
>>>
>>> Doctors and Pilots used to be treated the same way. few regulations,
>>> few standards and no regularity body until we realized that our lives
>>> depends on these people and their mistakes can be catastrophic.
>>>
>>> The ICT Industry is heading in the same direction. our errors are
>>> starting to cause some serious damages and the society is right when it
>>> demands some yardstick to know who is who.
>>>
>>> Will you fly with an uncertified pilot ?
>>>
>>> Can you go to the operating theater with a passionate and committed
>>> doctor but no certificate ?
>>>
>>> Why will you accept anyone to mange the system for your bank,
>>> hospital, airport and even national security.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Nelson
>>>
>>>
>>> On 02/12/2016 10:42 WD, James Muendo wrote:
>>> Nelson,
>>>
>>> "we can not sit and and watch as the industry gets diluted in the name
>>> of innovation and disruption."
>>>
>>> I think what you have quoted there is what drives the profession and
>>> the industry at large. What you are suggesting is we curb creativity of
>>> people who seek to curb a niche out of the huge industry. As Ahmed said,
>>> this is not like professions, like, being a doctor or a lawyer that have
>>> a
>>> pre-set set of standards. If anything, the industry thrives on its
>>> dynamic
>>> nature, which leads to disruption and innovation.
>>>
>>> On that I beg to disagree with you. Also, in terms of standards, if we
>>> look outside .KE, what other country/town has ICT standards?
>>>
>>> Am with Ngigi in this one, we need to separate business from
>>> profession. The tricky bit, would be, what criteria will you use to do
>>> so.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> On 2 December 2016 at 10:28, Nelson J kwaje via kictanet <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Let us face it, the ICT Industry has a problem with standards,
>>> ambiguity rules the ICT Industry in Kenya. the words below can have as
>>> many meanings as the are ICT professionals
>>>
>>> * Cloud Solution
>>> * Software Architect
>>> * Software Developer
>>> * IoT
>>> * Web APP
>>> * and many other
>>>
>>> we can not sit and and watch as the industry gets diluted in the name
>>> of innovation and disruption.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 02/12/2016 10:12 WD, Dorcas Muthoni via kictanet wrote:
>>>
>>> My point is, chaos are eminent in the industry. Is it what we want..
>>> NO.
>>>
>>> Then, let's agree on the criteria. ICT Authority is part of the
>>> KICTANET community, let's engage them, instead of shooting in your
>>> defense.
>>> Let's get a constructive multi-stakeholder engagement.
>>>
>>> I am afraid that having a few highly opinionated people rule mailing
>>> lists stalls multi-stakeholder participation.
>>>
>>> I hope that the ICT Authority is listening somewhere.
>>>
>>> On Dec 2, 2016 10:00 AM, "Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet" <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>>> wrote:
>>> Its not really about why people feel insecure. Its about what policy is
>>> meant to do. Why? Technologists are not doctors or lawyers.
>>> With all due respect. What does the education system offer as a
>>> yardstick for competence? Most of us got jobs before we even graduated
>>> school. And we went on to work for projects and institutions that went on
>>> to win Awards in the international arena.
>>>
>>> You see, IT is not about being a Doctor or being a Lawyer (where theory
>>> is a factor). IT is an operational field. IT, more than any other field -
>>> is based on Talent. Not much on Knowledge. This is why we have so many
>>> people out of Uni looking for Internships that they can not find. In a
>>> market where the dynamics are governed by people who did not even do that
>>> degree - to drive technical jobs.
>>>
>>> And yes, we have several CEOs in several companies who (and some of
>>> them entrepreneur their own way through) did not even do a BCom at the
>>> least. Some of them did not even see an higher learning institution.
>>> We need to understand that the market dynamics are shifting. Schools in
>>> developing are evolving. Why? Because Technology has changed the
>>> education
>>> field. The education field is not changing technology. Apologies if we
>>> believe so.
>>> Just my two cents.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 9:39 AM, Collins Areba via kictanet <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>>> wrote:
>>> @Dorcas.
>>> Before we even get to answering why many people are insecure about the
>>> discussion, I would point to the more obvious question. What are the
>>> protagonists trying to do? what are they trying to solve? Unfortunately
>>> thus far, It is not clear. What is in need of regulation? and why does it
>>> need to be regulated? is this regulation for regulation's sake?
>>>
>>> I did mention yesterday that from my point of view, Regulation makes
>>> sense only where there is a limited resource, shared by many, which left
>>> without regulation would result in disorder and "law of the jungle".
>>> Which
>>> ICT component is this that needs to be streamlined to prevent it from
>>> spiralling out of control?
>>>
>>> From where I sit, It feels like a bunch of individuals feel
>>> shortchanged about the time, effort and money they spent in learning "the
>>> science" only to come out here and find the arena flattened by the same
>>> technology. It feels like "the bill" which seeks to assign non existent
>>> value to those that feel some level of entitlement to that "ict
>>> professional" title purely on the basis of having done ICT formally.
>>>
>>> I stand corrected.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 9:02 AM, Dorcas Muthoni via kictanet <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Why are so many people insecure about this topic.
>>>
>>> Can a bank CEO act as the principal legal officer of a bank? Why not?
>>>
>>> Which Innovators are these people are referring to? As far as I know,
>>> most of the referenced global innovators dropped out of some computer
>>> science programs and employ thousands of highly qualified CS and
>>> engineering graduates.
>>>
>>> I don't think starting a box-pushing or software license reselling
>>> entity coupled with hiring a few technicians can turn anyone into a
>>> domain
>>> professional. Let's get this straight and boldly address the true issues
>>> at hand.
>>>
>>> Obviously, this loose arrangement is leading to the proliferation of
>>> extreme tender-prenuership.
>>>
>>> Can anyone point me to potential local Bill Gates, Larry Page or Mark
>>> Mark Zuckerberg. We can't use such example to complicate this discussion.
>>>
>>> If anything, we should be providing a friendly environment those with
>>> money and great experience invest in highly scalable startups.
>>>
>>> Nothing bars anyone who falls short of an agreed criteria from working
>>> on it.
>>>
>>> Obviously, we cannot water down such an important topic.
>>>
>>> On Dec 1, 2016 10:28 PM, "Alfred Kinyua via kictanet" <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Two things stand out, concerning ICT Authority.
>>> 1. Conformance of set standards (raising the bar).
>>> 2. locking out unqualified personnel, where government has interests .
>>> This is not a trivial issue, because one might be qualified but
>>> incompetent (theorists) / unsitable, while the opposite might be true,
>>> unqualufied but competent/suitable, this is true for ICT realtad mattets.
>>> Personally I thing further probing is required.
>>>
>>> On Dec 1, 2016 22:01, "Beryl Aidi via kictanet" <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>>> wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>> Law and policy seldom exist in a vacuum. Does anyone know anywhere in
>>> the world where the kind of regulation or ICT standards being anticipated
>>> to be used to weed out quacks have been used successfully? Successfully
>>> here being key, which means no victimization of those without any
>>> certifications that may exist; startups; or those just playing around and
>>> happen to stumble on something that may end up taking the world by storm;
>>> and by no means a way to stifle internet freedoms. Anyone knows where
>>> such
>>> a model exists? My two cents.
>>>
>>> Beryl Aidi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 9:41 PM, Waithaka Ngigi via kictanet <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>>> wrote:
>>> In summary... ICT is "...A coalition of The Willing..."
>>>
>>> Waithaka Ngigi
>>>
>>> Alliance Technologies
>>> www.at.co.ke<http://www.at.co.ke>
>>> From: Collins Areba via kictanet
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 9:30 PM
>>> To: Ngigi Waithaka
>>> Reply To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>>> Cc: Collins Areba; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ICT Authority to weed out quacks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Exactly!
>>> ICT is a disruptive sector. It is unfortunate when we attempt to define
>>> it as one would engineering, or architecture, or survey. The action -
>>> reaction - feedback - correction continum time wise is soo tiny. A
>>> decision
>>> for instance in some of these association, say which colour to paint a
>>> wall
>>> might take four months.
>>>
>>> I would still ask, what is the problem we are trying to solve? If this
>>> can be defined we should be in a position to find solutions collectively.
>>>
>>> On 1 Dec 2016 21:12, "Mwendwa Kivuva" <Kivuva at transworldafrica.com<m
>>> ailto:Kivuva at transworldafrica.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> The said procurement quacks are like Josephine Kabura. But they are not
>>> really quacks because they work as conduits for their masters in high
>>> places.
>>>
>>> If it was possible to weed out "quacks" from the industry, the said
>>> masters would still use the "professionals" to commit heinous crimes.
>>>
>>> Show me major scandals in Kenya conducted by quacks and I will show you
>>> a liar. Goldenberg, Anglo-leasing, euro bond...
>>>
>>> On Dec 1, 2016 7:36 PM, "Collins Areba via kictanet" <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I believe regulation should only be present where there is a limited,
>>> shared resource that might be subject to abuse. Short of having a set of
>>> rules: don't test an EMP in a built up area, don't access government
>>> servers even if their passwords are admin, admin. Don't give the
>>> president's number on twitter, etc etc etc. That is progressive
>>> legislation.
>>>
>>> On 1 Dec 2016 18:24, "Collins Areba" <arebacollins at gmail.com<mailto:
>>> arebacollins at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dorcas: show me the chaos. Then we discuss order.
>>>
>>> On 1 Dec 2016 18:17, "James Muendo" <james at muendo.co.ke<mailto:jam
>>> es at muendo.co.ke>> wrote:
>>> Collins,
>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> James Muendo
>>>
>>> Chief Executive Officer (CEO),
>>>
>>> Logic Craft Ltd,
>>>
>>> Suite 39, 2nd Floor, Visions Plaza, Mombasa Road
>>>
>>> P.O Box 28016 ? 00200,
>>>
>>> Nairobi,KE
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> M:| +254.725.567.508 S: | tim.rick Gtalk:| james.muendo T: | @MmuendoW:|
>>> http://about.me/muendo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Too Brief? Here's Why
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 6:15 PM +0300, "Collins Areba via kictanet" <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Personally I seek examples of the damage done by the said quacks that
>>> professional institutions haven't done. The distinct point of departure
>>> which will show the distinct difference so as to justify regulation.
>>>
>>> On 1 Dec 2016 17:32, "waudo siganga via kictanet" <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>>> wrote:
>>> Kivuva, you forgot Zuckerberg.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016, at 11:47 AM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet wrote:
>>> College drop outs who rule the world.
>>>
>>> Michael Saul Dell, William Henry ?Bill? Gates iii, Paul Gardner Allen,
>>> Lawrence Joseph Ellison, Stephen ?Woz? Wozniak, Steven Paul Jobs, Robert
>>> Edward ?Ted? Turner iii
>>> http://lord.me.ke/college-dropouts-who-rule-the-world/
>>>
>>> I wonder who among those would be considered an ICT pro in Kenya.
>>>
>>> ______________________
>>> Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya
>>> twitter.com/lordmwesh<http://twitter.com/lordmwesh>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1 December 2016 at 12:03, Ali Hussein via kictanet <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>>> wrote:
>>> The real important question has not been answered. Not since the term
>>> ICT started being used.
>>>
>>> WHO IS AN ICT PRACTITIONER?
>>>
>>> And who is this WATCHDOG who will abrogate himself/herself the role of
>>> GateKeeper and RentSeeker?
>>>
>>> Ali Hussein
>>> Principal
>>> Hussein & Associates
>>> +254 0713 601113 <+254%20713%20601113> <+254%20713%20601113><tel:+254
>>> %20713%20601113>
>>>
>>>
>>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>>>
>>> Skype: abu-jomo
>>>
>>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>>>
>>> "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking
>>> what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Gy?rgyi
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On 1 Dec 2016, at 10:51 AM, Athar Ahmad Bhatti via kictanet <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Brian they will implant a chip in your brain and track your IQ to see
>>> whether you are fit for IT. Whereas the millennial generation will lose
>>> most as they are hands on.
>>>
>>> Athar Ahmad Bhatti
>>> +254726488311 <+254%20726%20488311> <+254%20726%20488311><tel:+254
>>> %20726%20488311>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 10:43 AM +0300, "Brian Muhia via kictanet" <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is only to be applied to people trying to do contract jobs for the
>>> government, right?
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 10:27 AM WANGARI KABIRU via kictanet <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>>> wrote:
>>> Blessed Thursday!
>>>
>>> Might the sector be getting its shape?
>>>
>>> Private schooling started as an innovative approach to education - now
>>> we even have more innovative home schooling and best practice approaches.
>>> Healthcare etc
>>>
>>> Who has helped to weed out quacks proactively in most instances - it is
>>> the industry associations working with the governments. An angle to
>>> borrow
>>> from.
>>>
>>> "....He said the authority will in the next couple of weeks launch ICT
>>> standards where every professional in the field seeking to serve public
>>> service must comply.
>>> ?One of the things which we are doing very soon in the next couple of
>>> weeks, is that we shall be launching ICT standard, these are ICT national
>>> standards and we plan on having them effective from first of January and
>>> based on that vendors will have to comply with the standards,? said the
>>> CEO, adding that those who will not comply to the standards will be
>>> blacklisted..."
>>>
>>> How might the players engage in the discourse to give it shape while
>>> keep its jelly-nature?
>>>
>>> Be blessed.
>>>
>>> Regards/Wangari
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Pray God Bless. 2013Wangari circa - "Being of the Light, We are
>>> Restored Through Faith in Mind, Body and Spirit; We Manifest The Kingdom
>>> of
>>> God on Earth".
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, 1 December 2016, 8:43, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> kictanet mailing list
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
>>> ailman/options/kictanet/dmuthoni%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
>>> development.
>>>
>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
>>> bandwidth,
>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>> ...
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ---------------------------
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>>> safely by Mimecast.
>>> For more information please visit http://www.mimecast.com
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> kictanet mailing list
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> End of kictanet Digest, Vol 115, Issue 57
>>> *****************************************
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> kictanet mailing list
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
>>> ailman/options/kictanet/kevin.kamonye%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
>>> development.
>>>
>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
>>> bandwidth,
>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> kictanet mailing list
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
>>> ailman/options/kictanet/arebacollins%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
>>> development.
>>>
>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
>>> bandwidth,
>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Collins Areba,
>>> Kilifi, Kenya.
>>> Tel: +*254 707 750 788 */ *0731534124*
>>> Twitter: @arebacollins.
>>> Skype: arebacollins
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> kictanet mailing list
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/
>>> mailman/options/kictanet/ultimateprogramer%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
>>> development.
>>>
>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
>>> bandwidth,
>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Ahmed Maawy*
>>> Principal Product Management Specialist - Al Jazeera Media Network
>>> Skype: ultimateprogramer
>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> kictanet mailing list
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> End of kictanet Digest, Vol 115, Issue 64
>>> *****************************************
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> kictanet mailing list
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
>>> ailman/options/kictanet/ultimateprogramer%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>
>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kictanet mailing list
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>
>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
>> ailman/options/kictanet/arebacollins%40gmail.com
>>
>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kictanet mailing list
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>
> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/
> mailman/options/kictanet/james%40muendo.co.ke
>
> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>
--
James Muendo
Chief Executive Officer (CEO),
Logic Craft Ltd,
Suite 39, 2nd Floor, Visions Plaza, Mombasa Road
P.O Box 28016 – 00200,
Nairobi,KE
M:| +254.725.567.508 S: | tim.rick Gtalk:| james.muendo T: | @Mmuendo
<https://twitter.com/Mmuendo> W:|http://about.me/muendo
Too Brief? Here's Why <http://emailcharter.org/>
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