[kictanet] ICT Authority to weed out quacks

Fri Dec 2 14:23:01 EAT 2016

Dear Andrew,

Thanks for sharing. Therein lies the legacies that must be protected.

Kind regards,

Rosemary Koech-Kimwatu.

On 2 Dec 2016 14:11, "Andrew Alston via kictanet" <
kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
>
>
> I wade into this debate with a great degree of caution, but at the same
> time I feel it would be amiss not to tell my own story – and let you judge
> my stance from that.
>
>
>
> When I was 12 years old, living in South Africa, I walked door to door at
> every computer shop in the town I lived in, begging for a chance to help
> out in the stores – I didn’t want money – I wanted to be near the
> machines.  There was a guy, interestingly he shared my first name, and
> decided he’d give me a chance, and so at 12 years old I started showing up
> on Saturdays and installing dos on machines and installing windows 3.1 and
> hanging around their workshop.  By the time I was 13, I was putting
> together machines for them. They were even kind enough to give me the
> equivalent of 140 KSH for a Saturday morning.
>
>
>
> Somewhere along the way, I got hold of a copy of turbo pascal and begged
> pleaded and borrowed some manuals and taught myself how to program, first
> in pascal, and then in assembler.  By the time I was 16, I was then faced
> with a choice.  I could stick with high school, finish, leave at the same
> time as everyone else, go to universities, spend years getting a degree,
> and then enter the job market at the same time as all my school friends.
> Or, due to the age of the industry and how new it was where I was growing
> up, I could leave school, get a job, and get a 2 and a half year experience
> head start on everyone I was at school with.  I made my choice, and in
> around March, 3 months into grade 10, I clearly remember getting up in the
> middle of science class, and walking out.  I never went back.
>
>
>
> By the time I left though, I had already organized myself a job, relying
> on the experience I had working in computer stores for the previous 3 and a
> half odd years, and relying on the fact that I could already program.  So,
> I got on a bus, at age 16, travelled a thousand kilometres down to Cape
> Town and started my working life.  Over the next few years, I worked my ass
> off, earned just enough money to keep me afloat, and eventually started my
> own IT security company, got defrauded, went broke as a result, got up, and
> started again.  Eventually ending up working for the University of Cape
> Town in their IT department.  While there I started moonlighting for TENET
> (the South African academic network), and eventually ended up as their CTO
> where I was for 6 years.  After leaving there and doing a whole bunch of
> contracting (primarily for various universities), I took a contract with
> Liquid which eventually ended up becoming permanent and I ended up where I
> am today, in a senior position building networks across the continent.
>
>
>
> The point of this story is – there are individuals out there who have
> chosen a different route – I am not alone in the path I took, and I am not
> special, I was not born to wealth and honestly I don’t think I could have
> afforded to go to University anyway – my parents certainly didn’t have the
> money to pay for it, nor was I born with insane brain power, I merely chose
> to find my own path and work hard to reach the heights I have.  And in all
> of this – I fail to see why any system should penalize people such as
> myself, and indirectly penalize the people who I could share my knowledge
> and experience with.  I fail to see why a qualification actually matters if
> someone can **prove** they can do the job – and do it well, with an equal
> amount of passion, drive and skill, however it was acquired.
>
>
>
> Obviously, this post is written from an intensely personal perspective,
> but I argue that there are many who shared the path I chose to walk, and I
> believe that anything that removes the ability of these people to
> contribute to society and to our industry, is unfair, dangerous and against
> the interests of the industry as a whole.
>
>
>
> I know that I am PROUD to work in this industry, it is with pride that I
> stand among my colleagues, both Kenyan and otherwise, both certified and
> non-certified, and I just want the opportunity to continue the work I have
> dedicated the last 21 years of my life to and continue to build this
> industry and be able to contribute.
>
>
>
> Just my thoughts
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+andrew.alston=liquidtelecom.
> com at lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *Dorcas Muthoni via kictanet
> *Sent:* 02 December 2016 11:53
> *To:* Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
> *Cc:* Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] ICT Authority to weed out quacks
>
>
>
> Unfortunately, judging from my experience,  both in public and private
> sector, HR and top IT management do indeed either get it wrong, lack
> ability or sometimes objectivity while onboarding vendors or staff.
>
> In which case,  industry professionals can help in defining a criteria for
> all. This of course should also be shared with tertiary institutions and
> universities.
>
> As we know,  new professions are being defined daily. Some core
> fundamentals remain the same.
>
>
>
> On Dec 2, 2016 11:27 AM, "Francis Nderitu via kictanet" <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
> In my own view this kind of vetting they are asking for should be
> institutional but not individual - which is already happening naturally.
> Does Company A have the capacity to offer service XYZ? That kind of
> approach could be helpful, just like in the construction industry, diffrent
> companies have diffrent clearance level.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 11:03 AM, Nelson J kwaje via kictanet <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
> @James,
>
> I like how people are open minded about ICT professional.  it is okay to
> be a drop out, it is okay to not have any qualifications, just have passion
> and be good at what you do.
>
> Doctors and Pilots used to be treated the same way. few  regulations, few
> standards and no regularity body  until we realized that our lives depends
> on these people and their mistakes can be catastrophic.
>
> The ICT Industry is heading in the same direction. our errors  are
> starting to cause some serious damages  and the society is right when it
> demands some yardstick to know who is who.
>
> Will you fly with an uncertified pilot ?
>
> Can you go to the  operating theater  with a passionate and committed
> doctor but no certificate ?
>
> Why will you accept anyone to mange  the system for your bank, hospital,
> airport and even national security.
>
> Cheers
>
> Nelson
>
>
>
> On 02/12/2016 10:42 WD, James Muendo wrote:
>
> Nelson,
>
>
>
> "we can not sit and and watch as the industry gets  diluted in the name of
> innovation and disruption."
>
>
>
> I think what you have quoted there is what drives the profession and the
> industry at large. What you are suggesting is we curb creativity of people
> who seek to curb a niche out of the huge industry. As Ahmed said, this is
> not like professions, like, being a doctor or a lawyer that have a pre-set
> set of standards. If anything, the industry thrives on its dynamic nature,
> which leads to disruption and innovation.
>
>
>
> On that I beg to disagree with you. Also, in terms of standards, if we
> look outside .KE, what other country/town has ICT standards?
>
>
>
> Am with Ngigi in this one, we need to separate business from profession.
> The tricky bit, would be, what criteria will you use to do so.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> On 2 December 2016 at 10:28, Nelson J kwaje via kictanet <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
> Let us face it, the ICT Industry has a problem with  standards,
> ambiguity rules the ICT Industry in Kenya.  the words below can have as
> many meanings as the are ICT professionals
>
>    - Cloud Solution
>    - Software Architect
>    - Software Developer
>    - IoT
>    - Web APP
>    - and many other
>
> we can not sit and and watch as the industry gets  diluted in the name of
> innovation and disruption.
>
>
>
> On 02/12/2016 10:12 WD, Dorcas Muthoni via kictanet wrote:
>
> My point is,  chaos are eminent in the industry.  Is it what we want.. NO.
>
> Then, let's agree on the criteria. ICT Authority is part of the KICTANET
> community, let's engage them, instead of shooting in your defense. Let's
> get a constructive multi-stakeholder engagement.
>
> I am afraid that having a few highly opinionated people rule mailing lists
> stalls multi-stakeholder participation.
>
> I hope that the ICT Authority is listening somewhere.
>
>
>
> On Dec 2, 2016 10:00 AM, "Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet" <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
> Its not really about why people feel insecure. Its about what policy is
> meant to do. Why? Technologists are not doctors or lawyers.
>
> With all due respect. What does the education system offer as a yardstick
> for competence? Most of us got jobs before we even graduated school. And we
> went on to work for projects and institutions that went on to win Awards in
> the international arena.
>
> You see, IT is not about being a Doctor or being a Lawyer (where theory is
> a factor). IT is an operational field. IT, more than any other field - is
> based on Talent. Not much on Knowledge. This is why we have so many people
> out of Uni looking for Internships that they can not find. In a market
> where the dynamics are governed by people who did not even do that degree -
> to drive technical jobs.
>
> And yes, we have several CEOs in several companies who (and some of them
> entrepreneur their own way through) did not even do a BCom at the least.
> Some of them did not even see an higher learning institution.
>
> We need to understand that the market dynamics are shifting. Schools in
> developing are evolving. Why? *Because Technology has changed the
> education field. The education field is not changing technology.*
> Apologies if we believe so.
>
> Just my two cents.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 9:39 AM, Collins Areba via kictanet <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
> @Dorcas.
>
> Before we even get to answering why many people are insecure about the
> discussion, I would point to the more obvious question. What are the
> protagonists trying to do? what are they trying to solve? Unfortunately
> thus far, It is not clear. What is in need of regulation? and why does it
> need to be regulated? is this regulation for regulation's sake?
>
>
>
> I did mention yesterday that from my point of view, Regulation makes sense
> only where there is a limited resource, shared by many, which left without
> regulation would result in disorder and "law of the jungle". Which ICT
> component is this that needs to be streamlined to prevent it from
> spiralling out of control?
>
>
>
> From where I sit, It feels like a bunch of individuals feel shortchanged
> about the time, effort and money they spent in learning "the science" only
> to come out here and find the arena flattened by the same technology. It
> feels like "the bill" which seeks to assign non existent value to those
> that feel some level of entitlement to that "ict professional" title purely
> on the basis of having done ICT formally.
>
>
>
> I stand corrected.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 9:02 AM, Dorcas Muthoni via kictanet <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
> Why are so many people insecure about this topic.
>
> Can a bank CEO act as the principal legal officer of a bank? Why not?
>
> Which Innovators are these people are referring to?  As far as I know,
> most of the referenced global innovators dropped out of some computer
> science programs and employ thousands of highly qualified CS and
> engineering graduates.
>
> I don't think starting a box-pushing or software license reselling entity
> coupled with hiring a few technicians can turn anyone into a domain
> professional.  Let's get this straight and boldly address the true issues
> at hand.
>
> Obviously,  this loose arrangement is leading to the proliferation of
> extreme tender-prenuership.
>
> Can anyone point me to potential local Bill Gates, Larry Page or Mark Mark
> Zuckerberg. We can't use such example to complicate this discussion.
>
> If anything, we should be providing a friendly environment those with
> money and great experience invest in highly scalable startups.
>
> Nothing bars anyone who falls short of an agreed criteria from working on
> it.
>
> Obviously,  we cannot water down such an important topic.
>
>
>
> On Dec 1, 2016 10:28 PM, "Alfred Kinyua via kictanet" <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
> Two things stand out, concerning ICT Authority.
> 1. Conformance of set standards (raising the bar).
> 2. locking out unqualified personnel, where government has interests .
> This is not a trivial issue, because one might be qualified but
> incompetent (theorists) / unsitable, while the opposite might be true,
> unqualufied but competent/suitable, this is true for ICT realtad mattets.
> Personally I thing further probing is required.
>
>
>
> On Dec 1, 2016 22:01, "Beryl Aidi via kictanet" <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> Law and policy seldom exist in a vacuum. Does anyone know anywhere in the
> world where the kind of regulation or ICT standards being anticipated to be
> used to weed out quacks have been used successfully? Successfully here
> being key, which means no victimization of those without any certifications
> that may exist; startups; or those just playing around and happen to
> stumble on something that may end up taking the world by storm; and by no
> means a way to stifle internet freedoms. Anyone knows where such a model
> exists? My two cents.
>
>
>
> Beryl Aidi
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 9:41 PM, Waithaka Ngigi via kictanet <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
> In summary... ICT is "...A coalition of The Willing..."
>
>
>
> Waithaka Ngigi
>
> Alliance Technologies
> www.at.co.ke
>
> *From: *Collins Areba via kictanet
>
> *Sent: *Thursday, December 1, 2016 9:30 PM
>
> *To: *Ngigi Waithaka
>
> *Reply To: *KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>
> *Cc: *Collins Areba; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>
> *Subject: *Re: [kictanet] ICT Authority to weed out quacks
>
>
>
> Exactly!
> ICT is a disruptive sector. It is unfortunate when we attempt to define it
> as one would engineering, or architecture, or survey. The action - reaction
> - feedback - correction continum time wise is soo tiny. A decision for
> instance in some of these association, say which colour to paint a wall
> might take four months.
>
> I would still ask, what is the problem we are trying to solve? If this can
> be defined we should be in a position to find solutions collectively.
>
>
>
> On 1 Dec 2016 21:12, "Mwendwa Kivuva" <Kivuva at transworldafrica.com> wrote:
>
> The said procurement quacks are like Josephine Kabura. But they are not
> really quacks because they work as conduits for their masters in high
> places.
>
> If it was possible to weed out "quacks" from the industry, the said
> masters would still use the "professionals" to commit heinous crimes.
>
> Show me major scandals in Kenya conducted by quacks and I will show you a
> liar. Goldenberg, Anglo-leasing, euro bond...
>
>
>
> On Dec 1, 2016 7:36 PM, "Collins Areba via kictanet" <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
> I believe regulation should only be present where there is a limited,
> shared resource that might be subject to abuse. Short of having a set of
> rules: don't test an EMP in a built up area, don't access government
> servers even if their passwords are admin, admin. Don't give the
> president's number on twitter, etc etc etc. That is progressive
> legislation.
>
>
>
> On 1 Dec 2016 18:24, "Collins Areba" <arebacollins at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dorcas: show me the chaos. Then we discuss order.
>
>
>
> On 1 Dec 2016 18:17, "James Muendo" <james at muendo.co.ke> wrote:
>
> Collins,
>
>
>
> +1
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> James Muendo
>
> Chief Executive Officer (CEO),
>
> Logic Craft Ltd,
>
> Suite 39, 2nd Floor, Visions Plaza, Mombasa Road
>
> P.O Box 28016 – 00200,
>
> Nairobi,KE
>
>
>
> M:| +254.725.567.508 S: | tim.rick Gtalk:| james.muendo T: | @MmuendoW:|
> http://about.me/muendo
>
>
>
> Too Brief? Here's Why
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 6:15 PM +0300, "Collins Areba via kictanet" <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
> Personally I seek examples of the damage done by the said quacks that
> professional institutions haven't done. The distinct point of departure
> which will show the distinct difference so as to justify regulation.
>
>
>
> On 1 Dec 2016 17:32, "waudo siganga via kictanet" <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
> Kivuva, you forgot Zuckerberg.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016, at 11:47 AM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet wrote:
>
> College drop outs who rule the world.
>
>
>
> Michael Saul Dell, William Henry “Bill” Gates iii, Paul Gardner Allen,
> Lawrence Joseph Ellison, Stephen “Woz” Wozniak, Steven Paul Jobs, Robert
> Edward “Ted” Turner iii
>
> http://lord.me.ke/college-dropouts-who-rule-the-world/
>
>
>
> I wonder who among those would be considered an ICT pro in Kenya.
>
>
>
> ______________________
> Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya
> twitter.com/lordmwesh
>
>
>
>
>
> On 1 December 2016 at 12:03, Ali Hussein via kictanet <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
> The real important question has not been answered. Not since the term ICT
> started being used.
>
>
>
> WHO IS AN ICT PRACTITIONER?
>
>
>
> And who is this WATCHDOG who will abrogate himself/herself the role of
> GateKeeper and RentSeeker?
>
>
>
> *Ali Hussein*
>
> *Principal*
>
> *Hussein & Associates*
>
> +254 0713 601113 <+254%20713%20601113>
>
>
>
> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>
> Skype: abu-jomo
>
> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>
>
>
> "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking
> what no one else has thought".  ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> On 1 Dec 2016, at 10:51 AM, Athar Ahmad Bhatti via kictanet <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
>
> Brian they will implant a chip in your brain and track your IQ to see
> whether you are fit for IT. Whereas the millennial generation will lose
> most as they are hands on.
>
>
> Athar Ahmad Bhatti
> +254726488311 <+254%20726%20488311>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 10:43 AM +0300, "Brian Muhia via kictanet" <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
>
> This is only to be applied to people trying to do contract jobs for the
> government, right?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 10:27 AM WANGARI KABIRU via kictanet <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
> Blessed Thursday!
>
>
>
> Might the sector be getting its shape?
>
>
>
> Private schooling started as an innovative approach to education - now we
> even have more innovative home schooling and best practice approaches.
> Healthcare etc
>
>
>
> Who has helped to weed out quacks proactively in most instances - it is
> the industry associations working with the governments. An angle to borrow
> from.
>
>
>
> *"....He said the authority will in the next couple of weeks launch ICT
> standards where every professional in the field seeking to serve public
> service must comply.*
>
> *“One of the things which we are doing very soon in the next couple of
> weeks, is that we shall be launching ICT standard, these are ICT national
> standards and we plan on having them effective from first of January and
> based on that vendors will have to comply with the standards,” said the
> CEO, adding that those who will not comply to the standards will be
> blacklisted..."*
>
>
>
> How might the players engage in the discourse to give it shape while keep
> its jelly-nature?
>
>
>
> Be blessed.
>
>
> Regards/Wangari
>
>
>
> ---
> *Pray God Bless. 2013Wangari circa - "Being of the Light, We are Restored
> Through Faith in Mind, Body and Spirit; We Manifest The Kingdom of God on
> Earth".*
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, 1 December 2016, 8:43, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
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>
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> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>
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