[kictanet] Net Neutrality Debate Observation

Sat Dec 5 12:50:17 EAT 2015

Based on your observation, how can we consider such an attitude? Is a
crisis of confidence? or mistrust? If so, why? and if not why?

2015-12-05 8:41 GMT+01:00 Walubengo J via kictanet <
kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>:

> @Karanja,
>
> You are very right about little LOCAL research on this issue.
>
> However, I want to say that the local researchers exist, but the local
> players are VERY hesitant to engage.  For example, 6weeks ago, I wrote to
> all the local actors (Operators, Content Providers, Regulators, etc) around
> these issues and I regret to say that ONLY one operator (Safaricom) and the
> regulator (CA) cared to respond.
>
> It then becomes extremely difficult to counter foreign supplied data with
> 'local' data - that is not accessible because the data owners are not
> responsive. Ironically, if these data was requested by multinational
> researchers say from Mcainsey, they are likely to be treated better.
>
> Until and unless we start believing and trusting our own researchers,
> Africa will remain in awe of foreign data and research. We must explore
> ways that would enable operators, content providers and others to open up
> to local researchers - rather than just to foreign researchers.
>
> walu.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Mose Karanja via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> *To:* jwalu at yahoo.com
> *Cc:* Mose Karanja <mosekaranja at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, December 4, 2015 4:13 PM
> *Subject:* [kictanet] Net Neutrality Debate Observations
>
> *The NetNeutrality Debate in Kenya*
> I have been keenly following the debate on NetNeutrality globally and
> especially the Kenyan one.
> The events of the last three weeks kicking off at the Internet governance
> Forum in Brazil and the KICTANet mailing list debate have been key and it
> is clear to me:
>
>    1. There is a huge gulf between research numbers presented in defence
>    or opposition towards Free Basics/Internet.org <http://internet.org/>
>    in the developing world.
>    2. There is a limiting simplistic targeting of Facebook as the force
>    of evil in this debate.
>
> In the period after the IGF, discussions in Kenya and publications have
> moved more towards Facebook’s Free Basics; some objective and critical,
> some clearly as general attacks on Facebook as a company and Free Basics as
> a product. It was absolutely great for Grace Githaiga to bring the Facebook
> Policy team in to ensure official positions are clarified and the members’
> questions would be answered.
>
>
> *My observations*
>
> 1.     The Net Neutrality debate we are having is quite limited. The
> focus on Free Basics is very much in order and I hope this kind of energy
> can go to other contentious NN issues like *protocol and peering
> discrimination* (like when Zuku caps your download speeds when you are
> downloading Game of Thrones from Pirate Sites or when streaming live
> matches) and *IP discrimination* (when coffee joints, universities or
> organizations block specific websites like YouTube, Facebook under the
> guise of productivity, obscenity or heavy-traffic balance). These are
> top-of the head examples.
> 2.     Our Kenyan primary research on this area is a sham! I am saying
> this as a researcher myself at Strathmore Law School. That is why we cannot
> push back on the numbers and data presented to us.  Mozilla, Facebook,
> Stanford Uni all presented some data. We have some opinion polls here and
> there but no substantive work has been done locally. I ask all of us to get
> our hands dirty and get the data out from the users in our country so we
> can have a solid case in these debates.  We have a huge task ahead of us if
> we are to step into the global table of serious discussion. I cringed to
> hear an African participant at the IGF say that Africans should be included
> in the table discussing NN and issues affecting Africa and Internet. This
> is someone who had flown over 10,000 miles to Brazil yet claimed Africans
> (the generality) should be included in the discussion. I don’t think nobody
> ever blocked someone off from participating in the pre-IGF events and
> surely, playing that racism/underdeveloped/Africa/Poverty card is so lame.
> Unless we conduct our research, we will continue being consumers of
> knowledge, or whatever is presented as such.
> 3.     The organizations which deal directly with masses of end user are
> critical in giving feedback to the listers: ElimuTv for example is a good
> case. Most listers here are trapped in the {Nairobi-global capitals’
> conferences} and would profit from first hand experiences from the
> counties.
> 4.     In Reconciling political and economic goals in the net neutrality
> debate
> <https://www.msu.edu/~bauerj/papers/bauer-obar-netneutrality-tis-2014.pdf> (PDF),
> the authors argue convincingly for combining instruments towards an open
> Internet that upholds Net Neutrailty. As it has always been clear, access
> to the Internet is not a simple technological issue that can fixed just by
> adding more tech to the problem. One more cable won’t solve the access
> problem. Definitely the tech is core but freedom of speech, economic
> independence, language issues and political participation at the local
> level matter as much.
>
> CIPIT (at Strathmore) looks forward to partnering with all those who are
> interested in this topic in conducting primary research, forums and policy
> making. Blatant attack on Facebook or Google or Apple or whatever as a
> company is very easy. Anyone can do it. However, serious matters like this
> need our critical energies to offer credible alternatives to connect our
> people to the Internet.
>
> TL: DR: No, just read :)
> ---
> Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja <https://twitter.com/Mose_Karanja> | PGP:
> 0x1529552F
> <https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=index&fingerprint=on&search=0x1529552F>
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 4, 2015, at 3:37 PM, kictanet-request at lists.kictanet.or.ke wrote:
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Introducing Facebook Africa Public Policy Team to
>      KICTANet (waudo siganga)
>
> *From: *waudo siganga <emailsignet at mailcan.com>
> *Subject: **Re: [kictanet] Introducing Facebook Africa Public Policy Team
> to KICTANet*
> *Date: *December 4, 2015 at 3:25:46 PM EAT
> *To: *KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>
>
> This looks useful. Kivuva/Hussein please comment. Looks like schools can
> be able to access useful content without what the Bamba people call
> "kunyanyaswa na kukatwakatwa kila mwezi"
>
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2015, at 02:46 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet wrote:
>
> That’s fantastic-education content is some of the most sought after for
> Free Basics.
> A couple of things-
> Can you please have your team take a look at Platform, and the technical
> specifications, here?
> https://developers.facebook.com/docs/internet-org/platform-technical-guidelines
> Then they can submit, here:
> https://developers.facebook.com/docs/internet-org
>
> I will also connect you directly with our EMEA content lead!
> Thanks so much for writing, and for the work that you do.
> Best, Ebele
>
> <6F096681-9A34-452C-A5CD-1D0E4C64A463[1].png>
>
> Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
> m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315
> 2 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN
>
> ebeleokobi at fb.com
>
>
>
> From: Network of non- formal Educational institutions <
> nnfeischools at yahoo.com>
> Date: Friday, December 4, 2015 at 5:17 AM
> To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> Cc: Ebele Okobi <ebeleokobi at fb.com>
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Introducing Facebook Africa Public Policy Team to
> KICTANet
>
> Good morning to all
> Facebook has made a  positive move towards helping the poor communities
> We offer secondary education on TV and use Facebook to push some videos
> and interaction. However a good number of our student have said they are
> not on Facebook because they can  not afford internet
> We  would wish to be included in the program. How do we go about it
>
> Jane Muthiga
> Director Elimu TV
> 07231444259
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__overview.mail.yahoo.com_mobile_-3F.src-3DAndroid&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=zZ6qbsDNBO7gagtgwHhrMWvNzgNU5DpzRC0eOZG-nDw&s=BpGZdKAeTPcYw9quQkgR6rZRcrqxEAqe1W2k48Ir4a4&e=>
>
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet
> <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> Thanks so much for these questions! Please see below, in line.
> <6F096681-9A34-452C-A5CD-1D0E4C64A463[2].png>
>
> Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
> m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315
> 2 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN
>
> ebeleokobi at fb.com
>
>
>
> From: kictanet <*FastMail WARNING: URL text contains a possible
> JavaScript attack on your machine. URL disabled. Original
> URL='javascript:return'. For more information on phishing click here.*>
> on behalf of Sidney Ochieng via kictanet <*FastMail WARNING: URL text
> contains a possible JavaScript attack on your machine. URL disabled.
> Original URL='javascript:return'. For more information on phishing
> click here.*>
> Reply-To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <*FastMail WARNING: URL text
> contains a possible JavaScript attack on your machine. URL disabled.
> Original URL='javascript:return'. For more information on phishing
> click here.*>
> Date: Thursday, December 3, 2015 at 1:05 PM
> To: Ebele Okobi <*FastMail WARNING: URL text contains a possible
> JavaScript attack on your machine. URL disabled. Original
> URL='javascript:return'. For more information on phishing click here.*>
> Cc: Sidney Ochieng <*FastMail WARNING: URL text contains a possible
> JavaScript attack on your machine. URL disabled. Original
> URL='javascript:return'. For more information on phishing click here.*>
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Introducing Facebook Africa Public Policy Team to
> KICTANet
>
> Ebele,
> I'm still taking time to go through everything is your rather exhaustive
> reply but I do have a couple of questions:
> >From your participation guidelines:
>
>    - In addition, secure content is not supported and may not load.
>
>
>    - Any data (e.g., proxy requests) or reporting we provide is deemed
>    Facebook confidential information and cannot be used by you for any
>    advertising purposes or shared with third parties.
>
>
>
> Why isn't secure content explicitly supported?
> I am checking with our EMEA content partnerships team; will get back
> soonest.
> What is the rationale for the data and reporting condition?
> Per my exhaustive reply, ;-), we do not allow any advertising on Free
> Basics, and we do not allow developers to violate the privacy rights of
> users of Free Basics-see highlighted portion. We do not want developers
> creating sites that profit off of Free Basics users, or that use their data
> to advertise, or that share their data with third parties.
>
> Also while the while the FAQs on that page say different there's this
> condition:
> What do you mean when you say the FAQs on that page “say different”? Can
> you please specify what you mean when you say the FAQs “say different”?
> Thanks-once you do, will get back soonest.
>
>
> Developer participation on the Free Basics Platform, including the
> information submitted with your application, is otherwise governed by our
> standard legal terms. Collectively, our standard legal terms and these
> supplemental terms are the entire agreement between you and Facebook
> relating to Free Basics, and any terms of use for your service will not
> apply to Facebook.
>
>
> Those legal terms contain this:
>
> For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos
> and videos (IP content), you specifically give us the following permission,
> subject to your privacy andapplication settings: you grant us a
> non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide
> license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with
> Facebook (IP License). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content
> or your account unless your content has been shared with others, and they
> have not deleted it.
>
>
> So what takes precedence, the FAQ or legal terms? What does this mean for
> content producers who make a living of that content if Facebook chooses to
> exercise this right??
>
> Finally Nanjira makes an important point in her post here(*FastMail
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> Original
> text='http://nanjira.com/2015/11/taking-free-basics-in-kenya-on-a-spin/
> <http://nanjira.com/2015/11/taking-free-basics-in-kenya-on-a-spin/'>'
> <http://nanjira.com/2015/11/taking-free-basics-in-kenya-on-a-spin/'>. For
> more information on phishing click here.*) about how the platform, in
> Kenya at least, seems set up for consumption. Why is this? Was this an
> explicit decision or a side-effect of the chosen platforms? What is
> Facebook doing to encourage people to provide content to these sites?
> Platform is actually set up for people to create, but Free Basics is meant
> to be a light-weight product that operators are willing to provide for
> free, for people new to the Internet. Per previously—Free Basics is meant
> to be an on-ramp to the Internet. It’s not meant to be a place where people
> stay. The kind of Internet access that supports content creation requires
> all kinds of inputs (electricity, broadband, infrastructure) that Facebook
> alone is not solely equipped to provide in 192 countries around the world.
> It’s no coincidence that the countries with the most creators are countries
> with a) the most resources and b) the biggest government investment in
> infrastructure. As you know, it’s not Facebook that charges for Internet
> access in developing countries-it’s operators. Are operators willing to
> provide unlimited access, for free, to people? Should they? I think the
> primary thing to remember, per my email is that Free Basics is not, at all,
> meant to be a holistic answer to a complex issue. It is only meant to be a
> short/medium-term way of addressing two very specific linked barriers to
> access-awareness and cost.
>
> Looking forward to hearing your responses and I will be adding other
> questions as I go through your response(s).
>
> On 3 December 2015 at 13:00, Barrack Otieno via kictanet <*FastMail
> WARNING: URL text contains a possible JavaScript attack on your machine.
> URL disabled. Original URL='javascript:return'. For more information on
> phishing click here.*> wrote:
>
> Hi Ebele,
> Many thanks for your responses. I have a somewhat dumb question, some
> might have been partly addressed.
> 1. What role does the facebook public policy team play in Africa?
> 2. What led to the creation of the team?
> 3. What are facebooks plans regarding promotion of  local content and
> extending connectivity to marginalized areas?
> 4. What is Facebooks defination of Net Neutrality and what is its position
> on the same?
> Please educate me
> Thanks
> On Dec 3, 2015 9:56 AM, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" <*FastMail WARNING:
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>
> Zero-rating plans  are indeed fully compatible and offered along with paid
> plans-they are just one of many options, and per my response below,
> zero-rating that is paid for by operator must exist together with paid
> plans because if not, the operator can't survive.
>
> Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
> m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315
>
> 10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
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> [image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
>
> On Dec 3, 2015, at 5:57 AM, waudo siganga via kictanet <*FastMail
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>
>
> A quick one for Kivuva, Hussein, Ebele - Please clarify is this
> Zero-rating incompatible with, i.e. mutually exclusive to paid services?
> Why cant they operate TOGETHER.
> Waudo
>
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2015, at 01:52 AM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote:
>
> There is a good satirical letter from Max, Zuckerberg's daughter on giving
> people free access to Facebook as if it was water or electricity: *FastMail
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> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.theregister.co.uk_2015_12_02_max-5Fzuckerberg-5Freply-5Fletter_&d=CwMCAw&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=1ofvsWEAoehiEhB-dCxh1KgaGPcRfqQJtXIk2EWLIdY&s=sTudx9RKEpMTIDrooq2cQ0jfcJSIgIeFLOoxc6FzFHg&e=%27>?u=http-3A__www.ther
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.theregister.co.uk_2015_12_02_max-5Fzuckerberg-5Freply-5Fletter_&d=CwMCAw&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=1ofvsWEAoehiEhB-dCxh1KgaGPcRfqQJtXIk2EWLIdY&s=sTudx9RKEpMTIDrooq2cQ0jfcJSIgIeFLOoxc6FzFHg&e=%27>egister.co.uk_2015_1
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> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.theregister.co.uk_2015_12_02_max-5Fzuckerberg-5Freply-5Fletter_&d=CwMCAw&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=1ofvsWEAoehiEhB-dCxh1KgaGPcRfqQJtXIk2EWLIdY&s=sTudx9RKEpMTIDrooq2cQ0jfcJSIgIeFLOoxc6FzFHg&e=%27>d=CwMCAw&c=5VD0RTtNl
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> Original
> text='http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/02/max_zuckerberg_reply_letter/
> <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/02/max_zuckerberg_reply_letter/'>'
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> On Dec 3, 2015 1:05 AM, *FastMail WARNING: URL text contains a possible
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> wrote:
>
> Dr. Waudo, your questions are valid, and very well structured. This is
> what has been asked for some years now. And the idea of asking Facebook to
> come over is for them to school us too on their view of net neutrality.
> But find my attempt inline:
> On Dec 2, 2015 6:48 PM, "waudo siganga" <*FastMail WARNING: URL text
> contains a possible JavaScript attack on your machine. URL disabled.
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> >
> > Hi Kivuva/Hussein. I need a little more enlightenment:
> >
> > 1. Is the "Zero-Rating" issue a debate or has it already been concluded
> that it is a bad thing? There is a hint that supporting it may leave one in
> not very good standing..
> This has not been agreed upon. We would probably not get an answer to
> whether it is good or bad. But some countries have determined and outlawed
> zero rating,  some analyze zero rating requests on case by case basis, and
> other have approved zero rating.
> > 2. According to Kivuva's well-written article "Zero rating infringes on
> fundamental human rights by denying users access to the Internet". Are
> other service providers, including those offering "full" Internet Access at
> a fee, stopped or hindered from offering their services when some companies
> offer the zero-rating? Can both forms operate at the same time?
> This is a great question. And it is probably the main selling point for
> zero rating. To answer the question, if you have a data package, you can
> access the Internet outside the zero rated area. I probably like the idea.
> But what are the root cause for using zero rating? Can we make the Internet
> affordable?
> > 3. In Q2 above I have "full" in quotes because in my use of Internet I
> am yet to come across a truly "neutral Internet" i.e. sometimes I try to
> access certain websites or services and you are unable as you get a message
> that you cannot access that site/service from your country, meaning many
> services providers already practise packet filtering.
> True. There are many ways in which net neutrality is infringed, and there
> are different legislation from country to country on those aspects. The one
> that has affected us more is bandwidth trotting, especially of bit torrent
> traffic. An ISP advertises unlimited Internet access at $$$, then when you
> start using more resources than they had anticipated, they tighten your
> pipe. Bandwidth trotting and protocol blocking was banned by EU in 2014.
> Mobile carriers used to block access to Skype because it hurts voice,
> calling, and text-messaging revenue.
> So part of why we have been calling for a Net Neutrality law in Kenya is
> to protect the consumer, and also have a stand. Currently, the ISP can do
> whatever they want. The model to adopt is upto the community.
> > 4. Hussein gives certain characteristics of a "market" but probably
> leaves out a very critical one: Choice. The best market is the one where
> ALL service providers are given the opportunity to offer their services and
> consumers are left to choose. At the end of the day it is the consumers
> that decide which companies and services survive and which wilt along the
> way. Why choose for the consumer beforehand by barring certain services or
> business models?
> Be careful before you imprison yourself with your own words :). In the
> same breath of choice, who decided which websites a consumer should have
> access to? Why choose for the consumer beforehand? :) Why limit consumer
> choice?
> At another level, consumers are not usually very knowledgeable in what
> they want, or even what is good for a country. I'm ready to bet that if one
> country allows zero rating, and another country provides reliable
> affordable broadband, then the one with affordable broadband will
> experience faster economic growth. This is just an hypothesis.
> > 5. A couple of years ago the cost and affordability of Internet access
> was a key ICT public policy issue. We said it was a major impediment to the
> spread of Internet use. How do we reconcile that with opposition to free
> (ok "free" as Hussein corrected me) services even if they are only offering
> a slice of what an open Internet offers.
> Cost and access are still very relevant especially in our region of the
> world. That was why the IGF theme was "connecting the next billion." And
> there are very great suggestions thrown around on how to reduce the cost.
> Licensing, competition, usf, infrastructure sharing, taxes,...... We are
> really disadvantaged when it comes to utilising the great benefits of the
> Internet. Now what happens when we shrink that space more?
> >
> > On a lighter note these days I am very happy with Facebook especially
> the Groups, as I get to know what is going on in the village. But I have
> been accessing them using a paid service perhaps I can save a few shillings
> if I got to know how to connect for free.
> And Facebook likes these case studies. I heard them happily say how they
> are helping women chamas organise themselves, and also organise civil
> activism to foster democracy in places like Myanmar. Well, I want that too
> :-)
> >
> > I know Kivuva and Hussein have had extensive opportunity to study this
> area of Zero-Rating and also to listen o experts so I apologize in advance
> if my questions do not sound sophisticated.
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> > Waudo
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 2, 2015, at 05:07 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote:
> >>
> >> We are having the most vibrant debate on Net Neutrality on the list in
> a long while. Thanks for all contributors, and GG for initiating this
> timely discussion. It's exciting to see many people interested with the
> zero rating debate. I'm sure Ebele and Akua from Facebook are fascinated by
> the dynamism of this group. Thank you Ebele and Akua for graciously joining
> this debate.
> >>
> >> I'll keep my opinions to myself and only ask questions.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 1. Does Facebook support Net Neutrality?
> >>
> >> 2. Does Facebook's zero rating contravene net neutrality principle?
> >>
> >> 3. Will Facebook take "zero rated services" to areas without any
> connectivity infrastructure?
> >>
> >> 4. Will Facebook zero rated services reach all the people, even those
> with feature phones? Does fb have non app based Free basics?. What
> percentage of your target market has access to smart phones?
> >>
> >> 5. Which network operators does Facebook work with? Are all ISPs
> welcomed to the party?
> >>
> >> 6. Will free basics help reduce the cost of internet access?
> >>
> >> 7. Does Facebook pay ISPs to offer the "walled garden" to end users?
> >>
> >> 8. Why is Facebook running campaigns for "free basics" in a way to
> suggest that it is  giving free access to the internet? Is FB and a few
> vanilla websites the Internet?
> >>
> >> 9. Facebook is considered affluent. Would it consider providing free
> internet to everyone?
> >>
> >> 10. Is free basics bridging the digital divide or creating confusion of
> those who cannot differentiate between Facebook and the Internet? Is
> Facebook keen that users from the developing world have access to the whole
> wealth of knowledge and information that the Internet provides?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Sincerely,
> >>
> >> Mwendwa Kivuva
>
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