[kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open

Tue Aug 6 17:33:25 EAT 2013

Bernard

We are arguing past each other.

If Safaricom's MPESA is a payment system, then let it charge transaction
fees for that. It is not about creating a value proposition for them
because then they are both taking transaction fees but also eating your
innovation.

Just like writing a webpage and including Visa or MasterCard payment option
is as easy as ABC so long as they charge you their transaction fees for
anything you see via that option, MPESA has no business knowing what the
value proposition of my business is, just charge me the transaction fees
even if I am selling shambas at a loss - it is not their business to know
the business case of my business, I wonder if we are getting each other.

Either it is a payment system, or it is an online store which stocks the
services it wants. In the latter case, then different regulatory systems
including VAT for provision of value added services would apply.

That aside, my main concern is with exposure to the system even though
Central Bank has ordered them to relocate their servers to Kenya.

James

On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 5:23 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive
Limited] <bkioko at bernsoft.com> wrote:

> 40% of our GDP passes through MPESA….maybe something is wrong with me but
> I keep thinking BIG opportunity for  anyone……I would like to have 5% of the
> GDP pass through a product of mine…..i would define that as success for me.
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> Did you know MPESA’s biggest competition is not Airtel Money or YuCash or
> Orange Money…its little known Tangaza Money Transfer service….****
>
> ** **
>
> Am also wondering….isn’t KPLC powering more than 40% of our GDP (not sure
> of the numbers). Have you considered how many people are on Facebook in the
> world…over 1 billion yet the world population is 7billion. Shutdown
> Facebook and you will see what happens – consider that it’s a market place.
> Is the US Government busy splitting Facebook? No.****
>
> ** **
>
> Most banks have big budgets, enough to create a product like MPESA and
> make it do well – if Tangaza Money is doing well under the same environment
> and they are not even a bank.****
>
> ** **
>
> My point is, let Safaricom and their MPESA service be. Create a value
> proposition/innovation to Safaricom/Vodafone and see if they will agree or
> not to open up MPESA to you. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Also, lest we forget, afew years ago, banks resisted MPESA’s existence and
> had CBK listened to them, we wouldn’t have MPESA today. ****
>
> ** **
>
> *Kind Regards, *
>
> * *
>
> *Bernard Kioko
>
> *****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* James Mbugua [mailto:jgmbugua at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 06, 2013 4:58 PM
>
> *To:* bkioko at bernsoft.com
> *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
> *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open****
>
> ** **
>
> Bernard****
>
> ** **
>
> I have no problem with Safaricom even making Sh50bn in profits and I am
> incredibly proud of the achievements of M-PESA.****
>
> ** **
>
> But I have also covered banking and finance and I have never, ever been
> comfortable with that statement ever since it first surfaced, that 40% of
> our GDP passes through M-PESA. That is enough to give anyone a pause
> including those working for Safaricom.****
>
> ** **
>
> The thing is, either we figure out how to lessen this exposure, if we are
> not going to have more openness of the platform to talk to others, or, the
> government commission's a new network neutral money transfer system that
> all operators are obliged to work with and which it uses for its own bulk
> payments.****
>
> ** **
>
> This new government commissioned system works seamlessly across all
> platforms but allows each operator to charge their fees for traffic passing
> through their system. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Regards****
>
> ** **
>
> James****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive
> Limited] <bkioko at bernsoft.com> wrote:****
>
> Mark, ****
>
>  ****
>
> In view of your comments, I am forced to remind you that MPESA is a
> Vodafone product. Spanner in the works?****
>
> * *****
>
> *Kind Regards, *****
>
> * *****
>
> *Bernard Kioko*****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko=
> bernsoft.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *Mark Mwangi
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 06, 2013 4:16 PM****
>
>
> *To:* bkioko at bernsoft.com
> *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
> *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open****
>
>  ****
>
> @robert****
>
>  ****
>
> Reinventing the wheel is only useful for those with truckloads of cash and
> little to loose such as Google building their own browser. In the kenyan
> case building a following like M-pesa would take many more years and
> considerable effort needlessly. That a significant percentage of the GDP
> passes through M-Pesa necessitates intervention that may be detrimental to
> Safaricom's financial or dominant status. Let us not forget what the US
> govt did to Microsoft. It has to happen for the simple reason of national
> security. ****
>
>  ****
>
> Telling all the other players and consumers to deal with it is not going
> to cut it. A commercial entity with majority foreign ownership being
> allowed to transact 30% of our business in a closed system?? Tell me that
> is not being daft. As I always ask, I wonder what the NSIS thinks of all
> this. ****
>
>   ****
>
>  ****
>
> On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 3:52 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:****
>
> Hi All,
>
> Exactly what is the point of this discussion, as it seems someone wants to
> say something but is not getting to the point.
>
> What is open, are we suggesting that equity open up its branches and
> allows me to sell bananas in their banking halls because they have the
> largest client base or is it that the staffs ethnicity needs to show
> national diversity or that they should open up their banking software to
> all and sundry to connect and do as they wish with the client data, exactly
> what does Equity want Safaricom to make open yet they have mKesho
> together?
>
> When people start making personal attacks on others for their
> contributions it suggests a deeper issue than what the subject indicates
> and it might be better for them to put their cards on the table.
>
> Safaricom is a industry player who partner with a certain nondescript bank
> called CBA to provide the really kick ass solution, which makes me wonder
> if what Equity means by Safaricom being open is in which bank holds the
> deposits.
>
> So from where I am sitting the discussion here has nothing to do with an
> API, which if you are innovative you do not need, but more a taff war for
> the deposits that Safaricom holds on mPesa, MShwari and soon mBima, mSoko,
> mMali, mTV, mVituVingiSana.
>
> Regards
>
> PS.  Let us pick a fight we can win like making sure PostaPesa is open****
>
>  ****
>
> Robert Yawe
> KAY System Technologies Ltd
> Phoenix House, 6th Floor
> P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200
> Kenya****
>
>  ****
>
> Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696****
>
>  ****
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* James Mbugua <jgmbugua at gmail.com>
> *To:* robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk
> *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 6 August 2013, 13:50****
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open****
>
>  ****
>
> Bernard****
>
>  ****
>
> Far be it from me to suggest that your business with Safaricom clouds your
> outlook, but I think as a software developer you understand what we mean.*
> ***
>
>  ****
>
> Why do you have to present it to Safaricom for them to like it and then
> give greenlight further development?****
>
>  ****
>
> Even Microsft Windows is not that closed. At least there are specs for
> third party software development.****
>
>  ****
>
> THe problem here is that Safaricom cannot be both the owner of the
> platform and also the gate keeper of innovations that may run on it. We
> have not stopped them from earning money by coming up with standard
> licensing fees, but it should not be up to them to decide which idea they
> like and therefore should run on a payment system.****
>
>  ****
>
> This is the same problem AT&T had because they simultaneously owned Bell
> Labs which churned out landmark software technologies, they could decide
> that a technology that seemed a threat would not run on their network yet
> they were virtually a monopoly the way M-PESA by market positioning is a
> virtual monopoly.****
>
>  ****
>
> There are thousands of programmers who could come up with software or
> games that could seamlessly integrate M-PESA as a payment platform for
> their services without having to go through an approval process where
> SafCom technical people are the judges and jury particularly given the
> integrity issues that have long been raised of these SafCom IT guys when it
> comes to dealing with developers.****
>
>  ****
>
> But even then, there is the real national security threat of saying that
> 35% of our GDP passes through M-PESA when there is no credible redundancy.
> ****
>
>  ****
>
> What are we saying? That if MPESA is out of a week the economy stagnates?
> Potential systemic risks such as banking systems heavily exposed to one
> economic sector are heavily discouraged and neither should we say our
> national transactions are 35% exposed to one payment system and be happy
> about it.****
>
>  ****
>
> This is nothing against the folks at SafCom, it is just what makes sense
> for any right-thinking citizen.****
>
>  ****
>
> Regards****
>
>  ****
>
> James****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Bernard Kioko [Bernsoft Interactive
> Limited] <bkioko at bernsoft.com> wrote:****
>
> I actually believe that Safaricom has already opened up MPESA and will
> continue to open it up but that depends  on the value the opening up
> presents to Safaricom. I always like to use examples that are based on
> experiences. ****
>
>  ****
>
> My company a year ago developed a system for MPESA that makes MPESA
> transactions realtime – this is why when you pay DSTV your account gets
> reconnected immediately or when you deposit money to your bank from MPESA
> its realtime or why your KPLC payment is more realtime than it was before.
> We developed this system called “MPESA Instant Payment Notification”
> originally for use on Kenya Airways ticketing then presented it to
> Safaricom and they liked the idea thus opened up MPESA for us to integrate
> with and so most if not all of MPESA Paybill /Bug Good Transactions are now
> processed through this locally developed system. ****
>
>  ****
>
> Isn’t this opening up MPESA? I think Equity must justify the opening up
> they wish for and give value to Safaricom in order to bring Safaricom to
> their advantage.****
>
> * *****
>
> * *****
>
> *Kind Regards, *****
>
> * *****
>
> *Bernard Kioko
> *Chief Executive Officer****
>
> Bernsoft Interactive Limited****
>
> P.O.Box 15177-00100 Nbi,Kenya****
>
> Office:   +254-703-080-000****
>
> Mobile: +254-722-540-883****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko=
> bernsoft.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *Ali Hussein
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 06, 2013 12:47 PM
> *To:* bkioko at bernsoft.com****
>
>
> *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions****
>
> *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] Equity says M-Pesa lines should be open****
>
>  ****
>
> James ad all****
>
>  ****
>
> Well put. The difference though is that industry's open up themselves for
> open standards. Rarely do companies. ****
>
>  ****
>
> Its incumbent upon TESPOK to convince Safaricom to open up its Mpesa
> system 'fully' as many listers have suggested. The fact is that the
> Safaricom chaps are clever enough to see this coming (and if they are not
> unfortunately they will go the way of Telkom Kenya). ****
>
>  ****
>
> Rarely has government intervention in open standards helped the people
> they are supposed to help. Even the Banking sector clearing house is run by
> Bankers with the hawkish eyes of central bankers looking on.****
>
>  ****
>
> Safaricom will open up Mpesa fully - when they are good and ready and not
> a moment sooner. That's my take.   ****
>
> Ali Hussein****
>
> CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd****
>
> Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd****
>
>  ****
>
> +254 713 601113/ 0770 906375****
>
>  ****
>
> "The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb****
>
>  ****
>
> Sent from my iPad****
>
>
> On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:15 AM, James Mbugua <jgmbugua at gmail.com> wrote:****
>
> Openness****
>
>  ****
>
> I have always felt very strongly about this issue and I agree M-PESA
> should be open. I used to barge Michael Joseph relentlessly about this.
> Open first in the sense that third parties can interface their products on
> their API but secondly and more importantly, open to talk to other
> platforms the way banks talk to each other. I can withdraw money from Pesa
> Point or another non-Barclays quite easily.****
>
>  ****
>
> The fact is we cannot let platforms that stifle innovation continue to
> prosper. AT&T was finally split up in 1984 not because of its overwhelming
> market dominance, but that IT WAS REFUSING TO ALLOW NEW INNOVATIONS TO WORK
> ON ITS PLATFORMS thus overall stifling technology.****
>
>  ****
>
> In the same way, this is not a sustainable position for M-PESA if it
> projects its medium to long-term horizon, surely it must see that even the
> government will not be comfortable constantly hearing that this % of our
> GDP passes through M-PESA.****
>
>  ****
>
> If I was Safaricom I would be strategizing on how to open up the platform
> as painlessly as possible before the combination of disruptive market
> forces and government national security interests converge.****
>
>  ****
>
> Already I can deposit money into my bank account with M-PESA and withdraw
> it with Airtel Money. Surely, you don't need to be a genius to see that you
> don't need that middle man called the bank if the demand for the service is
> there.****
>
>  ****
>
> Regards****
>
>  ****
>
> James****
>
>  ****
>
> On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy at gmail.com> wrote:****
>
> In my opinion what Equity is asking for is for a common platform aka a
> common account that can be credited and debited by airtel money, yu cash
> orange money, tangaza etc in the manner that a visa credit card is open
> game for any merchant, bank etc. This way M-pesa becomes a platform and not
> a safaricom product. ****
>
>  ****
>
> I actually don't see how Safaricom looses in this scenario. Exponentially
> more transaction fee collections, Increased dependence by industry players,
> maintain the intellectual property and ownership of the platform etc. ****
>
>  ****
>
> Maybe they are reluctant due to technological immaturity. I also wouldn't
> want to embarrass myself after being feted worldwide. ****
>
>  ****
>
> On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Kivuva <Kivuva at transworldafrica.com>
> wrote:****
>
> @areba, what Equity wants, if I'm not wrong is the ability for you to
> setup a club within MPESA where you can use the platform to transfer
> funds without them passing through Safaricom.
>
> The MPESA platform becomes  an enabler.  Unless anybody else has a
> better understanding.****
>
>
> --
> ______________________
> Mwendwa Kivuva
> twitter.com/lordmwesh
> kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know****
>
> _______________________________________________
> kictanet mailing list
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet****
>
> Unsubscribe or change your options at
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com**
> **
>
>
>
> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.****
>
>
>
> ****
>
>  ****
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Mark Mwangi
>
> markmwangi.me.ke
>
> ****
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kictanet mailing list
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>
> Unsubscribe or change your options at
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jgmbugua%40gmail.com
>
> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.****
>
>  ****
>
> _______________________________________________
> kictanet mailing list
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>
> Unsubscribe or change your options at
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com
>
> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.****
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kictanet mailing list
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>
> Unsubscribe or change your options at
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jgmbugua%40gmail.com
>
> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.****
>
>  ****
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kictanet mailing list
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet****
>
> Unsubscribe or change your options at
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/robertyawe%40yahoo.co.uk
> ****
>
>
>
> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.****
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kictanet mailing list
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>
> Unsubscribe or change your options at
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/mwangy%40gmail.com
>
> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.****
>
>
>
> ****
>
>  ****
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Mark Mwangi
>
> markmwangi.me.ke
>
>
> ****
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kictanet mailing list
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>
> Unsubscribe or change your options at
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jgmbugua%40gmail.com
>
> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.****
>
> ** **
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/pipermail/kictanet/attachments/20130806/f87c8550/attachment.htm>