[kictanet] [ISOC_KE] Prosecution of online hate speech

Barrack Otieno otieno.barrack at gmail.com
Wed Oct 17 16:15:29 EAT 2012


Very interesting discourse Alex, my apologies for assuming you are a local,
my first sentence is a common term used by Police to arrest offenders, (You
will what the crown (police Symbol) means). Truly the convergence of the
Internet has brought interesting challenges , i wonder what other listers
have to say , it would be interesting to hear from a Lawyer, GG is the
chief justice on this list?, he tweets a lot i am sure he wont mind
providing some guidance :-) if we humbly invite him.

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 3:44 PM, Alex Comninos <alex.comninos at gmail.com>wrote:

> @Barrack,
>
> RE: Community policing.
> An interesting approach. Community policing has alot of virtues, I
> come from South Africa, where it can be very effective (it can also
> have adverse effects in the form of vigilanteism). The internet is
> very different to a real life community. It is a community of
> mulltiple and overlapping communities. These communities are a lot
> less tight knit and it is hard to identify whether one is a member of
> a community or not.
>
> There are two interesting cases of informal and ad hoc community
> policing on two online communities at the moment: 4chan
> (
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/16/amanda-todd-bully-anonymous-suicide_n_1969792.html
> )
> and reddit (
> http://gawker.com/5950981/unmasking-reddits-violentacrez-the-biggest-troll-on-the-web
> ).
> In some way, community policing is built into many online platforms,
> like facebook and blog comments.
>
> I worry that given the multiple layers of anonymity inherent on the
> internet afforded to all: offenders, infringers, policers and
> vigilantes. That any attempt at community policing online is fraught
> with many problems. How to identify the source and veracity of
> information provided by accusers? How to identify malicious actors and
> motives in this type of policing? How to seperate fact from fantasy?
> How to deal with internet vigilantes who take the law onto their own
> hands if they are ill informed or have ulterior motives. How to deal
> with internet "trolls" who take part in community policing?
>
> This is a really interesting can of worms.
>
> Kind regards, and thanks for the vibrant debate,
> Alex Comninos
>
> RE: A national survey.
> > i think what we need to look at is to
> > what extent should we sniff and is the citizenry comfortable i think we
> > might need a national survey on this, CCK can do this.
>
> I think perhaps a better body to conduct the survey would be the
> Kenyan human rights commission. With regards to this issue they are
> more neutral. They are not just concerned with communications, but all
> human rights.
>
> Measuring public opinion for the over 60% of the population that does
> not use the internet, and may not easily relate to the concepts may
> also be hard.
>
> On 17 October 2012 14:13, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack at gmail.com> wrote:
> > @ Alex on a lighter note watajua crown ni nini :-), if i was the new
> > Inspector General of Police, i would find a way of collaborating with
> > stakeholders to ensure that cyber security of the citizenry is guaranteed
> > whilst respecting privacy something akin to community Policing, remember
> the
> > days of subchiefs, my late grandmothers Sanyo Radio was once stolen and
> the
> > villager was smoked out since the community members knew each other quiet
> > well, in any case when you look at most mailing systems most system
> admins
> > can see the emails that come through but they have to exercise a level of
> > respect not to read through the mails, i think what we need to look at
> is to
> > what extent should we sniff and is the citizenry comfortable i think we
> > might need a national survey on this, CCK can do this.
> >
> > Best Regards
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 2:59 PM, Alex Comninos <alex.comninos at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> @Barrack
> >> I would propose that as a law enforcer in a functioning democracy with
> >> respect for human rights, even when enforcing the law against hate
> >> speech, I would not be above the law. Especially the supreme law of
> >> the land (the constitution). I would have a very tough task of
> >> balancing the provisions in the constitution against hate speech with
> >> the right to privacy enshrined in article 31 of the constitution which
> >> includes the right for people not to have their person, home or
> >> property searched; their possessions seized; information relating to
> >> their family or private affairs unnecessarily required or revealed; or
> >> the privacy of their communications infringed.
> >>
> >> As a law enforcer, beholden to the constitution, I may even have to
> >> investigate cybercafes or other law enforcement agencies for breaching
> >> the right to privacy installing keyloggers.
> >>
> >> Barrack if you were a law enforcer, what would you do?
> >>
> >> On 17 October 2012 13:48, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> > Assuming you were a law enforcer Alex what would you propose?
> >> >
> >> > Best Regards
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 2:40 PM, Alex Comninos <
> alex.comninos at gmail.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> @Kivuva
> >> >>
> >> >> I stongly agree with your concerns. I would not want all cybercafe
> >> >> owners monitoring my communications, and I would be very afraid of
> the
> >> >> circumstances.
> >> >>
> >> >> I also worry about the costs this would impose on cybercafes, which
> >> >> would be transferred to the consumers as barriers to access when
> >> >> cybercafes either increase their prices, or simply stop operating
> >> >> because they cannot deal with the costs.
> >> >>
> >> >> Furthermore alot of cybercafes operate in the informal economy, they
> >> >> need to be integrated into the formal economy before this happens.
> >> >> Demanding they install surveillance equipment would disincentivise
> >> >> them to embark on such a process.
> >> >>
> >> >> Crime and hate speech are a big problem, but it cannot be solved
> >> >> without a vast array of negative consequences by requiring
> >> >> intermediaries to act as policeman.
> >> >>
> >> >> In the history of the postal service in most countries other than
> >> >> totalitarian states, the post office (pre-information society
> >> >> intermediaries) where never required to open every letter sent to
> >> >> check it did not contain hate speech or planning of crimes. Imagine
> >> >> the outrage. Would anyone on this list like to see the post-office
> >> >> reading all their letters?
> >> >>
> >> >> On 17 October 2012 13:16, Kivuva <Kivuva at transworldafrica.com>
> wrote:
> >> >> > It seems we are entering the age of hyper-surveillance and
> >> >> > monitoring.
> >> >> > Personal freedom and space should be protected as we try to find a
> >> >> > balance between prosecuting hate speech offenders and monitor
> peoples
> >> >> > day to day lives. When NCIS says it will work with cyber cafes to
> >> >> > curb
> >> >> > vices, all I see is key-loggers installed in those workstations to
> >> >> > track what patrons are doing. I acknowledge that the safety of the
> >> >> > nation is important, but I fear what other uses such private
> >> >> > information may have, especially if it falls in the wrong hands!
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On 17/10/2012, Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Thanks Ali, Barrack and Jaco. The message is clear: the education
> >> >> >> system as
> >> >> >> well as intermediaries have a role in educating users of their
> >> >> >> responsibility
> >> >> >> online.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Listers, please feel free to
> >> >> >> continue the debate under the thread of Hate
> >> >> >> text messages/KICA Section 29.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Today, we focus our attention to prosecution
> >> >> >> of online hate speech. The NCIC has threatened to prosecute online
> >> >> >> hate
> >> >> >> speech as political campaigns intensify ahead of the 2013 March
> >> >> >> general
> >> >> >> elections.  The Chair of NCIS was quoted in
> >> >> >> yesterday’s Daily Nation as saying that his Commission is working
> >> >> >> with
> >> >> >> cyber
> >> >> >> cafes to monitor hate speech.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> There seems to be uncertainty on what offences may happen on
> >> >> >> communication networks and whether intermediaries would be liable
> or
> >> >> >> not.
> >> >> >> Such
> >> >> >> intermediaries as Safaricom have come up with rules that will be
> >> >> >> applied
> >> >> >> for
> >> >> >> political advertising on its network; while Nation Media has NMG
> >> >> >> blog
> >> >> >> rules
> >> >> >> (see
> >> >> >>
> http://www.nation.co.ke/meta/-/1194/1132038/-/88lbspz/-/index.html).
> >> >> >> NMG is
> >> >> >> cautious in particular after being sued
> >> >> >> for comments made by a reader on its blog on a story about Uhuru
> >> >> >> Kenyatta.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Is it advisable for these intermediaries to take caution or
> >> >> >> encourage
> >> >> >> self regulation or what should they do?
> >> >> >> How successful do you think the NCIC will be in prosecuting online
> >> >> >> hate
> >> >> >> speech?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Over to you Listers.RgdsGG
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Hate text messages/KICA Section 29
> >> >> >> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 15:20:46 +0200
> >> >> >> From: j.dutoit at unesco.org
> >> >> >> To: ggithaiga at hotmail.com
> >> >> >> CC: kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke; isoc at orion.my.co.ke
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Dear Grace, The education system definitely has a role to play in
> >> >> >> media
> >> >> >> and
> >> >> >> information literacy, but I would argue that it is also in the
> >> >> >> interest
> >> >> >> of
> >> >> >> the intermediaries to get involved in such education initiatives.
> >> >> >> Best
> >> >> >> regardsJaco -------------------------------------------------Jaco
> DU
> >> >> >> TOITAdviser for Communication & InformationUNESCO Regional Office
> >> >> >> for
> >> >> >> Eastern AfricaUnited Nations Avenue, UNON, Gigiri (Room C-104)
> P.O.
> >> >> >> Box
> >> >> >> 30592-00100, Nairobi, Kenya Tel: +254 (0)20 762 2346/2566 Fax +254
> >> >> >> (0)20 762
> >> >> >> 2750 Mobile: +254 (0)728 610 912 Email:j.dutoit at unesco.org,
> >> >> >>  Website: http://www.unesco-nairobi.org From: kictanet
> >> >> >> [mailto:kictanet-bounces+j.dutoit=unesco.org at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> ]
> >> >> >> On
> >> >> >> Behalf
> >> >> >> Of Grace Githaiga
> >> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, 16 October, 2012 3:57 PM
> >> >> >> To: Du Toit, Jaco
> >> >> >> Cc: kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke; isoc at orion.my.co.ke
> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Hate text messages/KICA Section 29 Thanks
> >> >> >> Barrack,
> >> >> >> Jaco and Kariuki for your views. Jaco, we note your point on the
> >> >> >> need
> >> >> >> for
> >> >> >> users to take responsibility on what they post and the need for
> >> >> >> information
> >> >> >> and media literacy for users. Barrack is of the same opinion that
> >> >> >> there
> >> >> >> is
> >> >> >> need for an education of users on their responsibility online. If
> I
> >> >> >> may
> >> >> >> ask
> >> >> >> both of you, who would be responsible for conducting this sort of
> >> >> >> education?
> >> >> >> Kariuki, you make a very good point about what may have informed
> the
> >> >> >> introduction section 29 of KICA namely the facsimile. Considering
> >> >> >> that
> >> >> >> technology has evolved and the internet is no longer in infancy,
> >> >> >> what
> >> >> >> would
> >> >> >> you recommend for this section? Listers, lets here more input from
> >> >> >> you.
> >> >> >> RgdsGraceDate: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 09:47:13 +0300
> >> >> >> From: otieno.barrack at gmail.com
> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Hate text messages/KICA Section 29
> >> >> >> CC: kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke; isoc at orion.my.co.ke
> >> >> >> To: ggithaiga at hotmail.com
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> GG,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Intermediaries are liable to a certain extent, when a computer
> >> >> >> broadcasts
> >> >> >> spam, its IP address is blacklisted and users might not be able to
> >> >> >> use
> >> >> >> it to
> >> >> >> send mail until corrective measures are taken. I beleive this is
> >> >> >> meant
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> ensure that the Intermediary is responsible for the content
> >> >> >> emanating
> >> >> >> from
> >> >> >> the network? if this is the case, why shouldn't the government
> which
> >> >> >> has a
> >> >> >> responsibility over the safety and security of every citizen not
> >> >> >> take
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> intermediary to court to produce the the real culprit? Imagine
> what
> >> >> >> would
> >> >> >> have happened in the the recent case when a child was kidnapped
> from
> >> >> >> a
> >> >> >> City
> >> >> >> Church if the Intermediary had not been of assistance to the state
> >> >> >> agencies,
> >> >> >> now that the populace understands the value of the Internet we
> >> >> >> should
> >> >> >> start
> >> >> >> educating them about their rights responsibility on the net same
> >> >> >> case
> >> >> >> applies to the Intermediaries, if this issues are not enshrined in
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> law
> >> >> >> it will be total chaos (looking at it from a government
> perspective)
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Best RegardsOn Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:58 AM, John Kariuki
> >> >> >> <ngethe.kariuki2007 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:Grace,Listers,Section 29
> of
> >> >> >> KICA
> >> >> >> was
> >> >> >> first introduced in Kenya law in 1998 at the infancy of the
> Internet
> >> >> >> in
> >> >> >> Kenya and was based mainly on experience of Facsimile.It was, in
> my
> >> >> >> view, at
> >> >> >> that time  not  intended for intermediaries.However,if today a
> smart
> >> >> >> lawyer
> >> >> >> can adduce pursuasive evidence in court that indeed the
> intermediary
> >> >> >> was
> >> >> >> actually the 'sender' not   mere 'carrier', I see no reason why he
> >> >> >> may
> >> >> >> not
> >> >> >> secure a conviction based on KICA section 29.  John Kariuki. From:
> >> >> >> Grace
> >> >> >> Githaiga <ggithaiga at hotmail.com>
> >> >> >> To: ngethe.kariuki2007 at yahoo.co.uk
> >> >> >> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> >> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, 16 October 2012, 1:02
> >> >> >> Subject: [kictanet] Hate text messages/KICA Section 29 Good
> morning
> >> >> >> Listers
> >> >> >> I would like to thank Jane, Barrack and Topista for views
> expressed
> >> >> >> on
> >> >> >> yesterday's topic Shooting the messenger. They did express the
> need
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> place
> >> >> >> some level of responsibility on both the source of the content and
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> host
> >> >> >> platform. Further they underscored the need to have a good
> >> >> >> information
> >> >> >> system that operates under a sound policy framework if it is to be
> >> >> >> useful to
> >> >> >> society.  Today we look at Section 29 of the KICA (improper use of
> >> >> >> system)
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> http://www.cck.go.ke/regulations/downloads/KenyaInformation-Communications-Act-Final.pdf
> >> >> >> that is increasingly being used as a basis for criminal charges
> for
> >> >> >> users of
> >> >> >> technology based platforms. See example:
> >> >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q7VmsYNsqE  29. A person who by
> >> >> >> means
> >> >> >> of a
> >> >> >> licensed telecommunication system— (a) sends a message or other
> >> >> >> matter
> >> >> >> that
> >> >> >> is grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing
> >> >> >> character;
> >> >> >> or
> >> >> >> (b) sends a message that he knows t
> >> >> >>  o be false for the purpose of causing annoyance, inconvenience or
> >> >> >> needless
> >> >> >> anxiety to another person  commits an offence and shall be liable
> on
> >> >> >> conviction to a fine not exceeding fifty thousand shillings, or to
> >> >> >> imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months, or to both.
> >> >> >> Could
> >> >> >> misuse of an information system also be used to charge
> >> >> >> intermediaries?
> >> >> >> Would
> >> >> >> this call for the training of the Kenya Police, DPP and Judiciary
> so
> >> >> >> that
> >> >> >> they understand the issues as they litigate and make rulings?
> >> >> >> Listers,
> >> >> >> lets
> >> >> >> hear your views. Further, please feel free to go back to
> yesterday's
> >> >> >> thread
> >> >> >> on shooting the messenger if you would like to contribute.  Have a
> >> >> >> wonderful
> >> >> >> day RgdsGG _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> kictanet mailing list
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> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Unsubscribe or change your options at
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ngethe.kariuki2007%40yahoo.co.uk
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
> >> >> >> platform
> >> >> >> for
> >> >> >> people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> >> >> >> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in
> the
> >> >> >> ICT
> >> >> >> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
> >> >> >> development.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
> >> >> >> behaviors
> >> >> >> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
> >> >> >> bandwidth,
> >> >> >> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
> >> >> >> privacy,
> >> >> >> do
> >> >> >> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> kictanet mailing list
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> >> >> >> Unsubscribe or change your options at
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail.com
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
> >> >> >> platform
> >> >> >> for
> >> >> >> people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> >> >> >> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in
> the
> >> >> >> ICT
> >> >> >> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
> >> >> >> development.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
> >> >> >> behaviors
> >> >> >> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
> >> >> >> bandwidth,
> >> >> >> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
> >> >> >> privacy,
> >> >> >> do
> >> >> >> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> Barrack O. Otieno+254721325277+254-20-2498789
> >> >> >> Skype: barrack.otienohttp://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ kictanet mailing
> >> >> >> list
> >> >> >> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> >> >> >> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanetUnsubscribe
> >> >> >> or
> >> >> >> change
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> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.com
> >> >> >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
> >> >> >> platform
> >> >> >> for
> >> >> >> people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> >> >> >> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in
> the
> >> >> >> ICT
> >> >> >> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
> >> >> >> development.
> >> >> >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
> >> >> >> behaviors
> >> >> >> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
> >> >> >> bandwidth,
> >> >> >> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
> >> >> >> privacy,
> >> >> >> do
> >> >> >> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > ______________________
> >> >> > Mwendwa Kivuva
> >> >> > For
> >> >> > Business Development
> >> >> > Transworld Computer Channels
> >> >> > Cel: 0722402248
> >> >> > twitter.com/lordmwesh
> >> >> > transworldAfrica.com | Fluent in computing
> >> >> > kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know
> >> >> >
> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> > kictanet mailing list
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> >> >> > Unsubscribe or change your options at
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/alex.comninos%40gmail.com
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
> >> >> > platform
> >> >> > for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
> and
> >> >> > regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the
> >> >> > ICT
> >> >> > sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
> >> >> > development.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
> >> >> > behaviors
> >> >> > online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
> >> >> > bandwidth,
> >> >> > share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
> >> >> > privacy, do
> >> >> > not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> kictanet mailing list
> >> >> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> >> >> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> >> >>
> >> >> Unsubscribe or change your options at
> >> >>
> >> >>
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail.com
> >> >>
> >> >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
> platform
> >> >> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> >> >> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the
> ICT
> >> >> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
> >> >> development.
> >> >>
> >> >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
> behaviors
> >> >> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
> >> >> bandwidth,
> >> >> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
> privacy,
> >> >> do
> >> >> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Barrack O. Otieno
> >> > +254721325277
> >> > +254-20-2498789
> >> > Skype: barrack.otieno
> >> > http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/
> >> >
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> kictanet mailing list
> >> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> >> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> >>
> >> Unsubscribe or change your options at
> >>
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otieno.barrack%40gmail.com
> >>
> >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> >> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> >> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> >> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
> development.
> >>
> >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> >> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
> bandwidth,
> >> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy,
> do
> >> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Barrack O. Otieno
> > +254721325277
> > +254-20-2498789
> > Skype: barrack.otieno
> > http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/
> >
>



-- 
Barrack O. Otieno
+254721325277
+254-20-2498789
Skype: barrack.otieno
http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/
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