[kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint

Tue Oct 11 18:47:04 EAT 2011

That skill that doesn't come with English degree is "meticulous eye for detail." Today I saw "mortgage" spelt as "morgage" is a very serious business magazine.

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________________________________
From: robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk>
To: luke <lmulunda at yahoo.com>
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint

Hi Andrea,

You got me on that one, it was meant to be digressing.

Regards

PS.  Thanks for the correction

Robert Yawe
KAY System Technologies Ltd
Phoenix House, 6th Floor
P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200
Kenya

Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696

________________________________
From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt at ratio-magazine.com>
To: robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Sent: Tuesday, 11 October 2011, 16:08
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint

Robert, 

I don't think I said that a jobless graduate is inferior - a jobless graduate is just jobless. That, in itself, is not necessarily a sign of qualification or lack of qualification. 

Outsourcing services or not is a different debate. You outsource because others can deliver a specific service cheaper and better than you can within your company. Depends. 

All I'm saying is: it takes more than being an English graduate (jobless or employed) to be a copy editor. Copy editing involves a specific skill set that doesn't come with an English degree. 

I'd also point out (before Mr Gaitho gets there) that 'you are disgracing' isn't a proper sentence. Am I disgraceful? Or digressing? Or am I disgracing something or someone? :) 

Andrea 

On 11 October 2011 15:17, robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Andrea,
>
>
>You are disgracing, what I was responding to was your issue that suggested that a jobless graduate was inferior to an employed one.
>
>
>I concur with you on the issue of having the senior editors educate the newbies, what could be done in my outsourcing model would be to deduct a certain amount for every error picked up further ahead in the chain, 
>
>
>"hit where it hurts most"
>
>
>Many people who jumped on the initial outsourcing "gravy train" got shut-down due to the high costs of the errors they made when transcribing, some ended up receiving invoices instead of cheques.
>
>
>Regards
> 
>Robert Yawe
>KAY System Technologies
 Ltd
>Phoenix House, 6th Floor
>P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200
>Kenya
>
>
>Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
>
>
>________________________________
>From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt at ratio-magazine.com>
>To: robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk>
>
>Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>Sent: Tuesday, 11 October 2011, 10:56
>
>Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
>
>
>
>Robert, 
>
>Whether you have your editing outsourced or not is mainly a questions of how you structure the contracts - do you have people on the payroll, or do you have them work as freelancer. Or you could have them on the payroll, but have them work online, so they can work anywhere and don't need to be physically present in the office. 
>
>However, that's secondary to quality, although I'd argue that for key functions, it'd be more useful to have them on payroll and in the office. A lot of mistakes occur again and again, so if I were in charge of cleaning up copy (and I was milimetres away from applying for that position with the Star), I'd try to develop an approach that would teach the journalists to avoid them. I'd hunt down anyone who still uses 'greenbuck' and 'curving a niche' and who uses 'adorn' wrongly.  
>
>My point is: 'English graduate' in itself is not a qualification for good copy editing. That requires a lot more than an English degree. It's entirely possible that someone with an English degree makes for a good copy editor, but it requires a lot more than that.
>
>Andrea  
>
>
>On 11 October 2011 09:36, robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Hi Andrea,
>>
>>
>>What is outsourcing if not sending out what has been standardised, as some have mentioned that it is becoming too expensive to hire editors why not outsource the same.
>>
>>
>>A jobless language graduate is no different from an employed language graduate, the graduate is jobless because the media houses cannot afford to pay them to sit in the office to work so why not apply technology.
>>
>>
>>That graduate sitting in Chepalungu can go to Pasha centre every evening after tending the firm or teaching at  the local primary school log onto the web and proof read articles due for publishing.  At 500/- per article the media house will spend 15,000/-, no pension or medical expenses, no desk space required, no tea at 10 and 4, one less supervisor, our food security will have moved a step forward, the slums in Nairobi will grow that much slower, the local school will have another teacher thus reducing the teacher/student ratio and last and least you and I will be less stressed by the mediocrity that has manifested in the media.
>>
>>
>>"Think global but act local"
>> 
>>Robert Yawe
>>KAY System Technologies Ltd
>>Phoenix House, 6th Floor
>>P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200
>>Kenya
>>
>>
>>Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>>From: Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt at ratio-magazine.com>
>>To: robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk
>>
>>Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>Sent: Monday, 10 October 2011, 10:41
>>
>>Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
>>
>>
>>
>>What Catherine said. Editing, proofreading, subbing require skill and experience and knowledge - it's *not* something you can just farm out to jobless graduates. 
>>
>>
>>On 10 October 2011 10:16, Catherine Adeya <elizaslider at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>I think there is a wrong impression that a Journalism graduate is best suited to edit a paper. You may be better off with an English major graduate, Linguistics graduate and Information Sciences (Publishing Major) graduate. The IS course at MU had a renowned editing course in the '80s with the late Jonathan Kariara. I do not know how they are doing now. I remember him teaching an editing class and emphasizing the importance of good grammar, good English and simplicity especially when communicating to the wider market. I remember "Class, it is easier to say "walk" rather than "perambulate" even though they mean the same thing.  He gave an example of certain words that you must be extremely careful about when editing...they are words that you must counter-check and DO NOT AT ANY COST rely on  your computer (the class already had experience in this). 
>>>
>>>
>>>Let me give you an example of one of those words and forgive me as I have no intention to be vulgar. Two years ago I was in Dar and I was reading their top local paper. The heading in one of the lead stories was 'President opens a Pubic library'......I can't remember whether it was a library or what but you know the word I am referring to. I actually drew the attention of someone I knew to this major error and she promised to get in touch with the editor. My point is such words on a spell-checker will be correct, it requires as well trained eye to still sweep over the document and pick words like this. Even in the the Kenyan case we lack this seriously yet the qualified people are there. I am glad this topic has come up because sometimes I just put the paper aside as I am horrified at the level of grammar and editorial mistakes. The same happens with the news that is scrolled during News broadcasts....and while I am at that... some of the Opinion
 questions are SO ABSURD and even worse they are  grammatically wrong...wrong...wrong....
>>>
>>>
>>>Enough said....
>>>
>>>
>>>Nyaki
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>________________________________
>>> From: Victor Bwire <victor at article19.org>
>>>To: elizaslider at yahoo.com
>>>
>>>Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>>Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:29 PM
>>>
>>>Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
>>>
>>>
>>>Infact it is the ICT use that is the cause of the problem- given the little ICT literacy by some of our newsrooms- most of our sub editors learn computer by on job-rarely able to master command of the computer functions- including grammer, spell checks-it will continue happening
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Previously, we used to print hard copies of the articles for editing manually with red pens- thus very few mistakes- but now
>>>
>>>Many of journalism courses do not include introduction to computer lessons- so how will the graduates know how to use them
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Who regulates journalism training or draws the course or approves the same in the country anyway- if you even happen to see some course outlines offered in some of the colleges and universities offering journalism  including Government ones- you will feel sorry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>________________________________
>>>From: kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org at lists.kictanet.or.ke [kictanet-bounces+victor=article19.org at lists.kictanet.or.ke] on behalf of james ratemo [jratemo at gmail.com]
>>>Sent: 04 October 2011 21:16
>>>To: Victor Bwire
>>>Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>>>Subject: Re: [kictanet] Declining English grammar in our Newsprint
>>>
>>>Bwana PS what are you insinuating? We open our newsrooms fro the so called English majors? Some of them are in the newsrooms already...maybe they are sleeping on the job...my opinion
>>>
>>>On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:11 PM, <bitange at jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange at jambo.co.ke>> wrote:
>>>All of today's newspapers had several grammatical errors.  At this time and age of ICT, is it not too embarrasing to have such errors?  We have  thousands of English majors without jobs.  It is time for media to be thorough in what they do by utilizing our many graduates without jobs.  As a Kenyan I get embarrased to see such errors.
>>>
>>>Ndemo.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Sent from my BlackBerry®
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Grace Githaiga <ggithaiga at hotmail.com<mailto:ggithaiga at hotmail.com>>
>>>Sender: kictanet-bounces+bitange=jambo.co.ke at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:jambo.co.ke at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>>Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:32:57
>>>To: <bitange at jambo.co.ke<mailto:bitange at jambo.co.ke>>
>>>Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>>>Subject: [kictanet] GSMA: Calls will remain high between African countries
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>>>
>>>--
>>>James Ratemo
>>>Online Sub-editor/ICT reporter
>>>Nation Media Group,
>>>P.O Box 49010-00100,
>>>Nairobi
>>>Cell Phone: 0724960649 OR 0731960649
>>>Email: jratemo at ke.nationmedia.com<mailto:Emaili-jratemo at standardmedia.co.ke> or ratemoj at hotmail.com<mailto:jamrats2001 at yahoo.com>
>>>Website:www.jratemo.wordpress.com<http://www.ictcradle.com/>.
>>>Twitter accounts: http://twitter.com/kenyacurrent or http://twitter.com/jamesratemo
>>>Skype account:ratemoj
>>>My facebook account: http://www.facebook.com/Rats.the.menace
>>>
>>>Who is rich? He that is content. Who is that? No one.
>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
>>-- 
>>Andrea Bohnstedt
>>Publisher
>>+254 720 960 322 
>>
>>www.ratio-magazine.com
>>Find/post East Africa careers
>>Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>kictanet mailing list
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>>Unsubscribe or change your options at http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/robertyawe%40yahoo.co.uk
>>
>>
>>The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>
>>KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online
 that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>
>>
>
>
>-- 
>Andrea Bohnstedt
>Publisher
>+254 720 960 322 
>
>www.ratio-magazine.com
>Find/post East Africa careers
>Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

-- 
Andrea Bohnstedt
Publisher
+254 720 960 322 

www.ratio-magazine.com
Find/post East Africa careers
Find/post conferences, workshops, trainings, other business events

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