[kictanet] Are we letting the PS get away with this too?

Wed Jan 19 21:55:07 EAT 2011

Walu, 2,3 5yrs I hope to be using a different technology not current version of GSM and then (sigh!) all dinosaurs will be extinct (talk about jobs how I miss KPTC and the large work force!). Hopefully, the dynamic model will be really dynamic then, not a one size fit all model.
Leonard

--- On Wed, 1/19/11, Walubengo J <jwalu at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Walubengo J <jwalu at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Are we letting the PS get away with this too?
To: mleonardo at yahoo.com
Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Date: Wednesday, January 19, 2011, 2:46 PM

True Dr. Wafula,

A system dynamics model would well demonstrate the impact of this move from Airtel and be able to indicate the impacts on other sub-systems in the mobile ecosystem.  But even Jaindi K in his today's commentry (cant get it online, not sure why) agrees this move is not a good idea and puts the cost of making a call at Ksh 1sh 70cts. So from his figure (CCK should confirm) Airtel is running this service at loss for reasons that consumers will very well come to know - 2, 3, 5yrs to come.

walu.

--- On Wed, 1/19/11, joseph wafula <muliaro at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: joseph wafula <muliaro at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Are we letting the PS get away with this too?
To: jwalu at yahoo.com
Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Date: Wednesday, January 19, 2011, 2:45 PM

Pricing will remain one of the most attractive cake floated to the public by service providers. This is what Airtel is doing. A system dynamic simulation needs to be conducted by the regulator taking into consideration key factors including, pricing, quality, access, tax, etc in order to set limits to which any of the parameters can be adjusted. without which we are in for a big supprise. cartails will start emerging targeting to lock out others, just the way matatu routes owners do for new entrants into the business.

CCK should tell us what its doing. Is this another lack of capacity related problem? I am ready to give a hand!

Dr Muliaro Wafula

From: "bitange at jambo.co.ke" <bitange at jambo.co.ke>
To: muliaro at yahoo.com
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Sent: Wed, January 19, 2011 1:43:04 PM
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Are we letting the PS get away with this too?

Liko,
In developed Markets where both data and voice have matured, you can
afford drastic fall in price.  When you get reports from the public, one
must always be cautious.  Take for example when someone reports that there
is a likelihood of cross subsidy which can potentially affect the market.
Should we be locking ourselves in the room and pray that nothing happens?

It is therefore not abnormal for the Government to be cautious especially
when the public writes to complain of a similar situation elsewhere.  We
have not faulted any operator but it is our responsibility to ensure that
there is fair play.

Imagine a situation where all the operators report losses at the end of
the year.  You will begin to see retrenchments, the stock market fall
would trigger a rise both with the exchange rate and the interest rates
effectively the consumer will end up paying somehow.  I will not be
suprised that it will be this same forum that will ask what the Government
was doing to let things get this worse.

Therefore, it does not matter whether you you cricise the Government now
or later.  Either way we face the criticism.

Ndemo.

> Guys.
>
> How about we just let the prices go down till the govt has to set
> prices ? Or till the Govt supports MNO's (like posta and telkom for a
> loooooong time)
>
> Seriously, the same peeps who were complaining about call costs 3
> years are worried about the telcos collapsing.
>
> This is the same language we heard when  ISP's we asked to reduce
> bandwidth prices ...
>
>  Unsustainable :)
>
>
>
>
>
> On 1/18/11, John Kieti <jkieti at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Walu and other esteemed Kenyans,
>>
>> This debate is interesting. As mentioned earlier by someone, the debate
>> would be more enlightening if the cost structure of these MNOs had been
>> in
>> the public domain. But all is not lost; there are some basic parameters
>> already in the public domain ie. (1) Safaricom's dominant position of
>> about
>> 77% market share and (2) Airtel's low price strategy including their 1
>> bob
>> on-net offer in an attempt to eat into Safaricom's market share. It
>> appears
>> a little premature then to raise a concern of Anti-Trust against a
>> non-dominant player, when they have not even achieved a half of the
>> dominant
>> player's market share.
>>
>> The current cost structure and profit margins for voice, SMS and all
>> other
>> product offerings is what we really need to understand before going into
>> any
>> conclusion on long term sustainability. It seems easy to see that brand
>> loyalty and patriotic sentiments are strong everywhere this debate comes
>> up
>> but it might also help to see these harder facts.
>>
>> Lastly, in today's dynamic economic environment, one has to either
>> innovate
>> or die - and our dear Safaricom has demonstrated substantial competence
>> on
>> this. It then appears that innovation is what will sustain growth of the
>> industry - really not regulation and protectionism.
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 6:09 PM, Walubengo J <jwalu at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Harry, tough questions you have and the answers may most likely
>>> neutralize
>>> my argument. But the bigger point is/was that certain type of
>>> competitive
>>> tactics can be counterproductive when looked at from a Macro
>>> perspective.
>>> Yes, you (Airtel) wins todays battle, but someone bigger than Safcom
>>> will
>>> lose the war.
>>>
>>> With the  Microsoft Case- European Courts ruled that their tactic was
>>> anti-competitive and they were forced to seperate their Browser from
>>> their
>>> OS, rather than sell as a bundle. But I think it was a case of too
>>> little
>>> too late.  Did internet numbers go down? probably not since Internet
>>> numbers
>>> do depend on more factors other than just Browsers.
>>>
>>> But for the mobile industry, their growth and expanse does depend on
>>> revenues. I can forcasts that VOICE Revenue generated from all players
>>> might
>>> be the same as last year because the voice industry may not grow - it
>>> will
>>> simply be shared out.. And after the price-wars are over and an
>>> equilibrium
>>> is established (maybe Airtel  50% others 50%) it will dawn on everyone
>>> that
>>> they incoming revenue streams is insufficient to deliver expansion or
>>> extend
>>> the services outside their current levels.
>>>
>>> walu.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On *Tue, 1/18/11, Harry Hare <harry at africanedevelopment.org>*
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Harry Hare <harry at africanedevelopment.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] [Skunkworks] Are we letting the PS get away
>>> with
>>> this too?
>>> To: "Walubengo J" <jwalu at yahoo.com>
>>>
>>> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>> Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2011, 5:22 PM
>>>
>>> Walu good analogy with Netscape and MS IE. However
>>>
>>>    1. Did the Internet die with the death of Netscape?
>>>    2. Did the Internet numbers stay constant with the death of
>>> Netscape?
>>>    3. Did Microsoft marketshare drop?
>>>    4. Did innovation on the internet stop?
>>>
>>> Guys, let get real, this is business…natural selection comes into play.
>>>
>>> Kindest Regards
>>>
>>> Harry Hare
>>> Director
>>> *
>>> eDevelopment House  : :  604 Limuru Road
>>> * Old Muthaiga  : : P O Box 49475 00100
>>> Nairobi : : Kenya
>>> T +254 20 3741646/7 : :  C +254 725 650044
>>>
>>> Training :  : Research:  :Consultancy:  : Publishing
>>>
>>> From: John Walubengo
>>> <jwalu at yahoo.com<http://mc/[email protected]>
>>> >
>>> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 05:35:58 -0800 (PST)
>>> To: Harry Hare
>>> <harry at africanedevelopment.org<http://mc/[email protected]>
>>> >
>>>
>>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>>> <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://mc/[email protected]>
>>> >
>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] [Skunkworks] Are we letting the PS get away
>>> with
>>> this too?
>>>
>>> Here are my thoughts.
>>>
>>> The PS is right about predatory pricing never aimed at growing the
>>> Industry.  For those who were "alive" at the beginning of the
>>> web-browser
>>> wars in early 1990s. Netscape was King. Then Microsoft came in and gave
>>> away
>>> its product Internet Explorer(IE) - for free. Everyone was happy -
>>> until
>>> they realized they were paying for the Microsoft IE through other means
>>> (by
>>> buying for the OS for example). But by then Netscape as a competitor
>>> was
>>> as
>>> dead as the Dodo. Microsoft Mission accomplished.
>>>
>>> Folks, Airtel is not here because they love giving free things. I am
>>> not
>>> privy to their Strategy but it can be read by anyone.  Their aim is not
>>> to
>>> grow/extend the Service, but rather to eat Safaricom's lunch. At a
>>> consumer
>>> level, nothing really wrong with that and infact it is Christmas time
>>> for
>>> consumers.  BUT at a national level, what you have is that the
>>> 20million
>>> subscribers you currently have in the country, will remain 20million
>>> subscriber five years later.  Only that half of them will be sitting on
>>> Airtel's network and the other half will be with "Others". Net growth
>>> for
>>> Kenya? =ZERO
>>>
>>> Airtel's strategy wont kill the mobile industry, but believe you me, it
>>> will stiffle its growth in the long run, because the returns to the
>>> investors will not be sufficient to sustain operations, let alone
>>> extend
>>> the
>>> network or pay for innovation.
>>>
>>> That said, as a consumer, Airtel's offer is truly irresistible and
>>> worth
>>> considering.  But as a scholar, I do know, and agree that it is not
>>> good
>>> for
>>> the industry in the long run.
>>>
>>> walu.
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On *Tue, 1/18/11, Odhiambo Washington
>>> <odhiambo at gmail.com<http://mc/[email protected]>
>>> >* wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Odhiambo Washington
>>> <odhiambo at gmail.com<http://mc/[email protected]>
>>> >
>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] [Skunkworks] Are we letting the PS get away
>>> with
>>> this too?
>>> To: jwalu at yahoo.com <http://mc/[email protected]>
>>>
>>> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions"
>>> <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<http://mc/[email protected]>
>>> >
>>> Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2011, 1:22 PM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 1:18 PM, Barrack Otieno
>>> <otieno.barrack at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>> You have a point Brainiac, there are many factors in your argument
>>> which
>>> need to be tackled and as such we may need expert opinion on some
>>> issues,
>>> a
>>> corporate entity is treated as a person  and as the saying goes one
>>> mans
>>> meat is another mans poison, what are the implications of certain moves
>>> on
>>> new market entrants? How will the other Telcos survive in the market?,
>>> this
>>> is where regulation comes in to ensure a piece of cake for everyone.
>>>
>>>
>>> Before making this debate so complicated, is Airtel's move interpreted
>>> as
>>> a
>>> means towards crippling the mobile industry?
>>> Why is this position not being applied on the Internet Service
>>> Provision
>>> industry then? We always heard promises of "prices will come down" but
>>> when
>>> they do now, the govt is gonna lose revenue? Puleease!
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best regards,
>>> Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
>>> Nairobi,KE
>>> +254733744121/+254722743223
>>> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
>>> Damn!!
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> My Blog - www.gmeltdown.com
>> '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
>> Keep on doing what you know is right ...
>>
>
> --
> Sent from my mobile device
>
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