[kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo

Mon Sep 27 11:02:56 EAT 2010

Mark,

Its not that the the lower-income groups have no use for facebook or email. Its rather that facebook is hosted abroad (not local) and accessing it over expensive undersea or satellite links does increase the overall cost of internet access by some factor...

put differently, if we had our very own, locally hosted facebook (or similarly high traffic sites) then we could reverse the Kenyan internet statistics that show over 80% of our internet traffic as being destined for foreign sites - thus increasing costs of access by a certain factor. (btw: Mich fix this link for statistics of the our local exchange point http://www.kixp.or.ke/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=34)

Kukubo's example of streaming the recent film award is a good example of local content - but unfortunately this is a one-off event; we would need something that is high traffic oriented but on a continous/sustainable basis. McTim example of NTV on youtube is "sustainable/continuious" but not sure if it is sitting on LOCAL  servers (someone needs to dig and tell us). In other words having local content that sits "abroad" does little to reduce the cost of internet access...

I think the best and sustainable local content (within the context of internet access cost reduction) must start from Government sources/agencies...think land, judiciary, birth/passport, licensing, weather, education, transport, health content and what it can do to get "Wanjiku" positively and forever online. I know there's something happening in that space but it needs to be more visible/accessible to the general public...just the way, the IIEC became visible with their electronic election tallying - inspite of - the legal hurdles therein.  

walu.

--- On Mon, 9/27/10, Mark Mwangi <mwangy at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Mark Mwangi <mwangy at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
To: jwalu at yahoo.com
Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Date: Monday, September 27, 2010, 11:14 AM

Arguing that the low income earners will have little to do on the interwebs is abit short sighted if you ask me. Same arguments were supplied when the mobile phone was introduced. As Andrea said, it is abit patronising imagining that a guy in mukuru slum would have little use for email and Facebook. How different is he from us? It is not content that spurs access but access that spurs content. If all the guys in the slums had access to a good connection they would create content THEMSELVES not be fed patronising content veiled as aid by some guy seated in a plush office waxing lyrical to foreign donors. 

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 2:20 AM, Muchiri Nyaggah <muchiri at semacraft.com> wrote:

Hi Andrea. You may be right, their interests may not be drastically different from those a bit more flush with cash or unbothered by the lack of it. It may be Chivas for one but Chang'aa for another. At the end of the day it's alcohol for both of them. However, to be meaningful to the lower income individual, the alcohol would have to be delivered differently. Content that seeks to empower me will mostly be delivered in the format that works for the devices I am accustomed to. For my friend who is bootstrapping to start a car repair shop, his cellphone is everything to him.  To empower him, content on the subject needs to be delivered in a format that works for HIS device.

If FM radio has the kind of content that results in high levels of audience engagement, how can it be ported onto the Internet? If sales of FM radio phones have gone up because of the conversations happening on that space, won't sales of data enabled phones go up because meaningful conversations are happening online? More people taking up bandwidth may result in better economies of scale for network operators and lower costs for consumers (in my own little utopia at least) due to better headroom for competition. Better pricing would keep the government from entertaining populist ideas like price controls for bandwidth because supply and demand would have been modified to the customer's benefit.

Little content, few subscribers, high prices. Let's make the Internet a place where [many] people want to go.

Kind regards, 

Muchiri Nyaggah

Director

@muchiri+254 722 506400

Semacraft.com

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 12:56 AM, Andrea Bohnstedt <andrea.bohnstedt at ratio-magazine.com> wrote:

Hey all, 

I really dislike the term 'bottom of the pyramid' or 'bottom billion' - I find those expression quite patronising. How about low-income clients or something along those lines?  

But that's by the by. I actually doubt that the so-called 'bottom billion' has so drastically different interests than the more middle class subscribers. I suspect that email/staying in touch, online dating, music and adult content are just as popular. Being poor doesn't automatically make you a more virtuous person. Look at people who buy changaa: barely any disposable income. And yet they'd still spend it on alcohol.  

This is the big irony: with internet connectivity, we have a load of information at our fingertips. But few people actually bother looking it up. I see the wildest speculation and conspiracy theories on Facebook that would take to a couple of seconds to clear up with a google search - but people don't do it. I suspect you must have learned how to ask questions, ask the right questions, search for information, figure out how to evaluate information etc. (and yes, I'm generalising here). 

Another thought: People already create content for the low-income segment - it's just delivered through FM stations rather than the internet. 

Have a good week, 
Andrea 

On 26 September 2010 01:22, Muchiri Nyaggah <muchiri at semacraft.com> wrote:

The Internet is a highway (a super one even) that takes us where we want to go. I believe there's a lot of local content online, its just not very meaningful for the vast majority living at the bottom of the pyramid.  People who are busy trying to put food on the table won't get on the highway to go to a place called 'Hot or Not.' It's just not meaningful.  I agree with Brian, for-profit enterprises have no reason to drop prices unless it becomes necessary for their survival. It will become necessary when the current realities of doing business are modified by say, a drop in demand for the high-cost Internet they are supplying.

As long we continue focusing on content such as blog posts, YouTube videos and entertainment applications, only those with disposable income or time will be consuming it. The real fortune for ISPs (like CK Prahalad said) lies at the bottom of the pyramid but until we generate content and applications that make meaning for the masses, we may have to live with a slow drop in prices much longer than we prefer to.

Don't expect ISPs to create the content either. They are in the 'transport' business. They are lousy at creating content.

Kind regards,

Muchiri Nyaggah
Director
@muchiri+254 722 506400
Semacraft.com

On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 2:36 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Hi,
Your current ISP charges you $500 for a 1MB link from your location to his edge router, after that it is called best effort especially since most ISPs do not have bandwidth managers.

I will take this seriously and do not back down when I come to you to signup.
Regards
 Robert Yawe
KAY System Technologies Ltd
Phoenix House, 6th Floor

P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200
Kenya

Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696

From:
 Agosta Liko <agostal at gmail.com>
To: robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk>

Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Sent: Fri, 24 September, 2010 10:01:06

Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo

no Robert

1MB for 50USD ... to anywhere ... I dont get limitations from my

current providers

your thoughts ?

On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 10:00 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi,
> Fine, so long as it is local loop from your office to your collocation

> centre where you will be providing SaaS solutions.
> Regards
>
> Robert Yawe
> KAY System
 Technologies Ltd
> Phoenix House, 6th Floor
> P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200
> Kenya
>
> Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
>
> ________________________________
> From: Agosta Liko <agostal at gmail.com>

> To: robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk>
> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>

> Sent: Fri, 24 September, 2010 9:50:23
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
>
> Robert
>
> Si you start an ISP ? ... with 1:1 @ USD50 per MB ... I will be a customer
>
> Just thinking

>
> On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 9:44 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> When we talk about 1 MB for $500/- I believe we are referring to a

>> dedicated
>> connection with a contention ratio of 1:1 not shared provided by the ISPs
>> of
>> 1:∞.  So the ISP buys the 1 MB at $500/- dollars and sells it to 20
>> subscribers at $50/- a culture they developed during the good old days of

>> satellite.
>> In addition the 1 MB is not from your equipment to the ISP but should be
>> the
>> entire route into the Internet.  Exploited we still are and as has been
>> said

>> by many the prices have still not come down sufficiently.
>>
>> Robert Yawe
>> KAY System Technologies Ltd
>> Phoenix House, 6th Floor
>> P O Box 55806 Nairobi,
 00200
>> Kenya
>>
>> Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe at gmail.com>

>> To: robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk
>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>

>> Sent: Thu, 23 September, 2010 17:21:40
>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
>>
>> I'm sorry to sound like a broken record but I don't know any ISP in Kenya
>> selling 1Mb for >$500 - and anybody who is being extorted like this should

>> go to a reputable ISP and get their service for tens of dollars, not
>>
 hundreds....
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari at lynxbits.com>
>> wrote:

>>>
>>> “naomba serikali” or not…government policies ultimately affect demand and
>>> supply laws in any market. While the call here is not to go the Finish
>>> way
>>> of making it a right for all citizens to have access to 1Mb of broadband

>>> by
>>> 2015, or UK’s 2Mb, GOK can move to create an environment that will
>>> encourage
>>> our good ISPs  lower the current rates, currently  >$500- remember, the
>>> potential bulk users in Kenya earn <$1/day!

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
 Edwin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a
>>> pocket
>>> full of holes.
>>> DAVID TOOMA

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Brian Munyao Longwe [mailto:blongwe at gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 4:20 PM

>>> To: Edwin Onchari
>>>
>>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi all,

>>>
>>> Is this another case of "naomba serikali inisaidie" - which is to typical
>>> of us Kenyans....
>>>
>>> It is my firm belief that we have a free and open market for internet

>>> services
 in Kenya - with little or no barriers to entry for any player.
>>> Could it just be that the rules of supply and demand are applying and
>>> thereby preventing the "drastic" drops in pricing that it seems many of

>>> use
>>> are dreaming about?
>>>
>>> I think Walu is asking the right kinds of questions - how do we adjust
>>> the
>>> supply/demand equation to bring about the desired results?

>>>
>>> In my honest opinion government has been doing a good job of staying out
>>> of business - let's keep it that way.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>

>>> Brian

>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari at lynxbits.com>
>>>
 wrote:
>>>
>>> Better yet, GOK should slice up its 40% stake and sell to smaller
>>> businesses that are willing to play ball, so that Kenyans are not at the
>>> mercy of a handful ISPs that cannot get their act together

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Edwin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a
>>> pocket

>>> full of holes.
>>> DAVID TOOMA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke

>>> [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke] On

>>> Behalf Of Harry Hare
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:35 PM
>>> To: Edwin
>>>
>>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello All,
>>>
>>> Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates
>>> which
>>> are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force that

>>> will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold 40%
>>> of
>>> TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if the
>>> operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the time...this,

>>> together with NOFBI, the
 ministry has capacity to roll out a project like
>>> -
>>> “free internet for all”, another first from Kenya.
>>>
>>> Think about it.
>>>
>>> Harry

>>>
>>> On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively

>>> high.  Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of
>>> SUPER-PROFITS?
>>>
>>> Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play between
>>> the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not limited

>>> to
>>> Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels,  Local Content, Regulatory&
>>> Competition Environments, Charging
 Models, etc.
>>>
>>> The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of
>>> the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable
>>> impact

>>> on Retail Internet pricing.  Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of
>>> the
>>> above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires
>>> a

>>> delicate balance of the whole ecosystem.
>>>
>>> But perhaps I could be wrong..
>>>
>>>
>>> walu.
>>>
>>> --- On Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah at gmail.com> wrote:

>>>
>>> From: McTim <dogwallah at gmail.com>
>>> Subject:
 Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
>>> To: jwalu at yahoo.com
>>> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>

>>> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari at lynxbits.com

>>> </mc/compose?to=eonchari at lynxbits.com> > wrote:
>>> > Yes Dennis,
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >

>>> > Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for
>>>
 > less
>>> > than $50…
>>>
>>> Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec
>>>
>>> >in Kenya, it’s anything between $500-$800.
>>>
>>> Wholesale price in Kenya?  Around 50 USD per Mb/sec  (in Mombasa) is

>>> what I heard recently from an industry player.  That is probably for a
>>> volume purchase of course.
>>>
>>> African eDevelopment Resource Centre
>>> eDevelopment House  : :  604 Limuru Road

>>> Old Muthaiga  : : P O Box 49475 00100
>>> Nairobi : : Kenya
>>> T +254 20 3741646/7 : :  C +254 725 650044
>>>
>>> Training :  : Research:  :Consultancy:  : Publishing

>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Brian Munyao Longwe
>>> e-mail: blongwe at gmail.com
>>> cell:  + 254 722 518 744

>>> blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com
>>> meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com

>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Brian Munyao Longwe
>> e-mail: blongwe at gmail.com
>> cell:  + 254 722 518 744

>> blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com
>> meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com

>>

>>
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>
>

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