[kictanet] GAY HATING WEBSITE (HATING KENYAN GAYS)

Fri Mar 12 09:10:41 EAT 2010

Bomu,

You raise a relevant concern, however the issue of jurisdiction comes to
play as Walu has explained.  Even if you put in a Notice Take Down on the
site, that may not be an issue to the host! (Go Daddy for this case) and our
regulator may not be able act effectively since it's not hosted here. maybe
you may want to take a new route on e-Civil education but keep in mind this
topic is still very contentious and not well received locally.

SammyG

On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 8:21 AM, Walubengo J <jwalu at yahoo.com> wrote:

> this issue is quite complex- a classic example of content regulation
> challenges. Here are the issues as I see them
>
> 1.  the site promotes anti-gay sentiments
> 2.  the site is hosted outside Kenya but ofcourse accessible by Kenyans and
> does relate to Kenyans
> 3.  the Kenyan law does NOT encourage homosexuality (the lawyers can
> correct me but I think it criminalises this behaviour)
>
> Given the above legal status, one is likely to find little legal favor in
> trying to get the local regulator to pulldown or filter the site. In any
> case, the site is hosted outside Kenya and our regulator would have little
> impact on the same even if they wanted to.
>
> walu.
>
>
>
> --- On *Fri, 3/12/10, Mwangi Wamae <mwangi.wamae at gmail.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Mwangi Wamae <mwangi.wamae at gmail.com>
>
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] GAY HATING WEBSITE (HATING KENYAN GAYS)
> To: jwalu at yahoo.com
> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> Date: Friday, March 12, 2010, 3:41 AM
>
>
> All:
>
> I do not think that calling attention to such sites serves anyone's
> interests but those behind the site.  Even if you contact GoDaddy the people
> behind it can be up and running within hours.  In the age of the Internet,
> censorship does not work.
>
> Sites like that generally hang around unnoticed unless there is a lawsuit
> or a challenge that brings attention to them.  It is called the "Streisand
> Effect <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect>":
>
> The Streisand effect is a primarily online phenomenon in which an attempt
>> to censor or remove a piece of information has the unintended consequence of
>> causing the information to be publicized widely and to a greater extent than
>> would have occurred if no censorship had been attempted.
>
>
> BTW I looked at the front page of the site, and with the exception of the
> naming of individuals, I did not see anything that would unduly worry me.
>  Calling people to rally (peacefully) behind a cause is the essence of
> democracy and free speech.
>
> I suggest we let such sites wither away in oblivion.
>
> My $0.02
>
> -Mw
>
> On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Janet Feldman <kaippg at earthlink.net<http://mc/compose?to=kaippg@earthlink.net>
> > wrote:
>
>>  Dear Wainaina and All,
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello and good to see you posting. I think we are all concerned about the
>> recurrence of possible violence and of the growing intolerance that we are
>> reading about and seeing in Kenya.
>>
>>
>>
>> That issue is directly linked in some ways to the kinds of intolerance,
>> hatred and violence exhibited by the folks who have set up this site we are
>> discussing. Insert the word "Luo" or "Kikuyu" instead of "gay", and you
>> might find that some people would agree exactly with what is being said.
>> "Down with Luos", or "down with Kikuyus"..."they are not like us, they are
>> (insert a pejorative), they are different." Sometimes it is not too far a
>> step to then say:  "these people are different, they don't deserve to live."
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm not clear what you are saying in your first paragraph:  are you saying
>> that anyone who wants to exhibit any kind of behavior, and use the media to
>> do it, should be allowed to do so?  "Hate-radio" in Rwanda has been linked
>> directly to the genocide there:  while the issues and problems that brought
>> about that terrible situation went way beyond the use of media to foment
>> violence, one of the main conclusions that many analysts have made in the
>> aftermath of that tragedy is that those particular stations should have been
>> shut down.
>>
>>
>>
>> There are standards for licensing of stations, and those do include some
>> of what one would call "ethics" and "public responsibility." Yahoogroups and
>> Googlegroups have some guidelines, too, for responsible behaviors in the
>> forum context. The very kinds of things said on that site, if said in a
>> public forum, could shut that forum down, or at least get the individual
>> uttering them expelled from use of those groups.
>>
>>
>>
>> I do think we need to be careful about the use of that method, but in
>> certain circumstances--especially where lives might be at stake--it does
>> seem appropriate to consider same. If one is worried about the stoking of
>> violence--in Kenya or elsewhere--and there are media outlets doing just
>> that, which is irresponsible in the extreme for a media source catering to
>> "the public", then taking away their ability to keep operating does not seem
>> too drastic, in fact, it seems essential.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks and best wishes, Janet
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Wainaina Mungai
>> Sent: Mar 11, 2010 5:15 PM
>> To: Janet Feldman
>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] GAY HATING WEBSITE (HATING KENYAN GAYS)
>>
>>  1. Since the recommended solution seems to be to "shut down" such
>> channels conveying "hate speech"; should I expect that we would also shut
>> down the offending vernacular FM radio stations in Kenya (re; 2007/8 PEV)
>> whose utterances/actions contributed to hundreds of thousands of Kenyans
>> becoming internal refugees after the 2007 elections? And we haven't counted
>> the thousands who died. When do we shut down the radio/TV stations??
>>
>> 2. A more important issue for Kenya is the emerging evidence that the hate
>> that tore this nation apart in 2007/8 is simmering in several provinces as
>> tribes acquire weapons in the event violence recurs.
>> *
>> *
>> WM
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:41 PM, Janet Feldman <kaippg at earthlink.net<http://mc/compose?to=kaippg@earthlink.net>
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>  Dear Grace and All,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello and thanks for alerting us to this terrible site...ironic that they
>>> call others filthy!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am going to alert GoDaddy, where I have a website, and also Facebook
>>> and other venues about this site. I'm sure they have some policies on the
>>> promotion of hate speech and on fomenting of hatred, so I hope they will be
>>> able to shut down this one.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Even if not, we can at least remain alert to all forms of violence,
>>> hatred, and discrimination with what you have posted, and know what this
>>> kind of response leads to...just the very violence and hatred that rocked
>>> Kenya in 2008, when a combination of political/economic and social/ethnic
>>> factors threatened to tear the country apart.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> With immense appreciation for your caring and concern, and blessings to
>>> all, Janet
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Grace Bomu
>>> Sent: Mar 11, 2010 7:14 AM
>>> To: kaippg at earthlink.net <http://mc/compose?to=kaippg@earthlink.net>
>>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>>> Subject: [kictanet] GAY HATING WEBSITE (HATING KENYAN GAYS)
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> The website below is promoting a hate culture at a time when the issue of
>>> gays, personal laws in the Bill of rights/constitutional making is very hot.
>>> Are we using media to promote bias like we did in 2007 and is there any
>>> intervention that the Government or anyone can take? I appreciate that the
>>> site is not registered in Kenya but the information is circulating in
>>> Kenya....and it could be a forerunner to the kind of e-hate campaigns we
>>> could see come another election/referendum.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.projectsee.com/
>>> Domain Name: PROJECTSEE.COM <http://projectsee.com/>
>>>   Registrar: GODADDY.COM <http://godaddy.com/>, INC.
>>>   Whois Server: whois.godaddy.com
>>>   Referral URL: http://registrar.godaddy.com
>>>   Name Server: NS13.DOMAINCONTROL.COM <http://ns13.domaincontrol.com/>
>>>   Name Server: NS14.DOMAINCONTROL.COM <http://ns14.domaincontrol.com/>
>>>   Status: clientDeleteProhibited
>>>   Status: clientRenewProhibited
>>>   Status: clientTransferProhibited
>>>   Status: clientUpdateProhibited
>>>   Updated Date: 14-nov-2009
>>>   Creation Date: 14-nov-2009
>>>   Expiration Date: 14-nov-2010
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Grace L.N. Mutung'u (Bomu)
>>> +254721898732
>>> +254736091242
>>> Kenya
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ---
>> http://www.bungesms.com
>> http://www.madeinkenya.org
>> http://www.wainainamungai.com
>>
>>
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