[kictanet] Red Card for the Sheikhs

Wed Apr 28 08:28:57 EAT 2010

Thanks Fatma,

Well put ;-)

If this very rare "admission" by government officials is the truth,
then clearly, the matter should rest.

If however, it is a move to 'manage' the Yes and No votes, then we
will be back here discussing freedom of information, ICTs, propaganda
and such relevant topics.

I remain hopeful that this was a genuine error by journalists from BBC
and other media houses.

Time will tell.

Wainaina

On 4/28/10, Harry Delano <harry at comtelsys.co.ke> wrote:
>
> All,
>
> This should settle this debate. A rep of the media house who earlier
> reported, should take responsibility for misleading info and
> duly apologise, if on this list..
>
> Let not this forum degenerate into a debate pitting opposing religions. We
> have quite alot in the field that pertains ICT, do deal with.
>
> Regards,
> Harry
>
>   _____
>
> From: kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> [mailto:kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke at lists.kictanet.or.ke] On
> Behalf Of Fatma Bashir
> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 8:07 AM
> To: harry at comtelsys.co.ke
> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Red Card for the Sheikhs
>
>
> r Listers,
>
> Please see below, from Nation Media website: link is:
> http://www.nation.co.ke/News/PC%20says%20Govt%20shut%20down%20video%20dens/-
> /1056/907416/-/111hh3i/-/index.html
>
>
>
> The government has claimed responsibility for a crackdown on video dens in
> North Eastern Province.
>
> RELATED STORIES
>
> *	Now Supkem
> <http://www.nation.co.ke/News/regional/Now%20Supkem%20bans%20DStv%20in%20Nor
> th%20Eastern%20/-/1070/907312/-/qg8y6lz/-/index.html> 'bans' DStv in North
> Eastern
>
> The North Eastern Provincial Commissioner James ole Seriani also reassured
> Multichoice Kenya, the operator of the DSTv channels and the locals that
> neither the government nor the clerics would interfere with the satellite
> broadcaster.
>
> "I want to clarify a report appearing in both the local print and broadcast
> media that alleged that Sheikhs closed DSTv and video dens in Mandera. The
> truth is that the Mandera district security committee met in September last
> year and resolved to close all video dens," the administrator said in a
> message sent out to the media.
>
> According to Mr Seriani, the district security committee was targeting halls
> that show immoral videos, those that hide criminals and aliens, those that
> admit school children when they are supposed to be in school and those that
> operate without license or sell drugs.
>
> "Let me emphasise that it is not the Sheikhs who banned the shows but the
> district security committee and DSTv has not been banned."
>
> The PC said the security team has no reason to interfere with DSTv because
> it only shows football, which he acknowledged was a popular sport in North
> Eastern.
>
> He was, however, categorical that the provincial administration would carry
> on with the crackdown until the illegal dens are wiped out.
>
> "We have the support of all the leaders which gives us the impetus to carry
> on with the clean-up," he said.
>
> I think we all agree that this time, the media was irresponsible in the way
> it reported this incident.  Journalism calls for responsibility, especially
> at a time when this country is trying to put in a new constitutional order
> and to heal some of the wounds of the past.  Any person who loves children
> and believes in order and morality would laud the move to shut down video
> dens that allow children to be exposed to vices such as pornography, drugs
> and sexual abuse, whether Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Agnostic or Atheist.
> Good governance is also about building a society in which all persons are
> protected and particularly children, who are the most vulnerable of the lot.
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 7:38 AM, Wainaina Mungai <wainaina at madeinkenya.org>
> wrote:
>
>
> Fatma et al.
>
> SOURCES: KTN news and other press reports. See BBC reports online. I
> verified the TV reports and watched as SUPKEM official lauded the
> move, stating how they should spread it to other towns. Video
> play-back available.
>
> DSTV & VIDEO DENS: See press reports for my source & related details.
>
> VIDEO DENS & JURISDICTION: Even where it is 'well-intended', a
> religious leader has no jurisdiction over businesses or legal issues
> such as the Muslim leaders purported to 'out-law'. So, it is not their
> place to do so. That's the point being drummed into Kenyans. You may
> lobby the government but you cannot outlaw anything with the imagined
> mandate to do so.
>
> SUPKEM: A SUPKEM official was on TV stating how they should spread the
> same to other towns. Wrong approach again: no jurisdiction. That's a
> point that needs to get across otherwise, if Christians and Hindus
> enforced their ''laws'', life would be very uncomfortable for
> non-Christians or non-Hindus.
>
> SECULAR STATE: The fact that the PM and President profess any sort of
> religion does not make KENYA a religious state. We need to be on the
> same page on that one. Those are (personal convictions). We do not pay
> them to perform (religious duties) towards persons who religiously
> agree with them. We pay them to deliver on totally non-religious
> functions of government/State for all people or every religion -
> including aethists. The Khadhi courts are financed for a 'religious
> function' that via the constitution is navigated into the realm of
> state functions through the judiciary. The Kadhi Courts, if retained
> in a Constitution, should be financed by those it is meant to serve.
> Special funding using my taxes needs to go towards persons with
> disabilities - not religious functions.
>
> SHARIAH & KADHI COURTS: I have to admit I do not know the connections.
> What I was refering to is "Islamic teachings" that were quoted as the
> basis of the actions of the said Sheikh and the what the SUPKEM
> official stated would be spread to other towns. I may have dragged the
> wrong terminology along but well am sure the point is clear. Your
> religious convictions do not give you jurisdiction over anyone. We
> have adequate mechanisms (enforced or otherwise) to address matters in
> a non-religious manner. The Mombasa Mayor & councillors keep making
> that very same mistake of mixing religion with their statutory role.
> That is dangerous in a polarised situation as we what we have.
>
> SHARIA & THE POOR: I admire the way (real) followers of Islamic
> teachings take care of others through alms and their dedication to
> virtue. I also admire how true Christians do the same and give up
> wealth for others in what some would call socialism. I admire how true
> Hindus build hospitals and give free healthcare. However, none of
> these should issue decrees or apply religious teachings on people who
> do not 'profess' that religion. We would have to agree on a State
> religion if we start that debate. Governance in a secular state (which
> is what we have in Kenya) does not require application of religion. If
> Kenya was to become a religious state....well, we all know it would be
> a Christian state...making things rather unbearable for people who
> profess other religions.
>
> DSTV/Multichoice made a business decision not to ''jump onto the
> bandwagon'' (which included the Minister Poghisio) of condemning the
> actions in Mandera. I would guess (& i may be wrong ;-) ) it was not
> because they had a different conviction from that of the 'bandwagon'.
> They needed a PR decision which does not apply in my case. I need
> rights and freedoms enforced equally for all not because the Bible,
> Koran or Torah says so....but bacuse it is the law of the land.
>
> DRUGS, HOMOSEXUALITY ETC: There is this growing trend at the Coast
> where 'Islamic teachings' are being used by councillors, the Mayor and
> Ministers from the region as their basis for fighting drug-trafficking
> and homosexuality. Refer to statements by Mombasa Mayor and Minister
> Balala in recent days (The Star). The basis for their recommedations
> (though well-intended) shows the extent of the misconceptions about
> the jurisdiction of religion in a secular state. The basis for
> fightlng crime, drug abuse or whatever else they perceive to be
> criminal is the KENYAN LAW - derived from Constitution, legislation,
> regulation, council by-laws etc.
>
> Overall, my point is this: Religious leaders have a right to express
> concerns but have no jurisdiction in enforcing matters of State. Kadhi
> courts are to me, the product of such distorted views about the place
> of religion in a secular state. In the draft constitution, we continue
> to propagate a situation that favours one religion over others. The
> impact will become clear in a couple of years.
>
> I have no quarrel with Islam, neither do I need to know the details of
> what is and what is not Islam or Hindu, Buddhist or Christian. All I
> need is the principles of good governance that apply to ALL persons in
> a secular state. In cases such as Mandera and Mombasa, we must have
> safeguards against people who may be mistaken in believing they have
> jurisdiction over others simply because they profess a faith that
> tells them as much.
>
> I hope we are now on the same page.
>
> Wainaina
>
>
> On 4/28/10, Fatma Bashir <fatma.bashir at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear Listers,
>>
>> I read the article in the papers and tried to link the shariah law to
>> what I was reading in vain....however tho late in response I felt it
>> would be appropriate to share some personla views...
>>
>> response to the first post sent ( by Wainaina)
>>
>> I am not sure where the information came from that the closing down of
>> video dens has anything to do with enforcement of shari'ah law.  It is
>> a matter of fact that video dens, which are scattered all over the
>> less affluent regions of the country, and mainly in slums, are
>> responsible for very many ills in those areas.  Talk to anyone living
>> in a slum in Nairobi and they will testify to the fact that not only
>> are children missing school to watch unsuitable movies, they are
>> picking up extremely bad habits from these video dens and are being
>> exposed to sexual abuse by sexual predators who not only give them the
>> entrance fee to watch some movies but prey on them while they are in
>> those very dens.  It is about time somebody stood up to this.
>> Secondly, you must be more responsible when making a statement such as
>> 'outlaw DSTV video dens and related activities'.  The only thing that
>> was outlawed was the video dens and it was done with the full support
>> of the local authorities.  If you live in Mandera and decide to
>> install DSTV in your own house, then so be it but please, allow them
>> to take responsibility for what their children are being fed by way of
>> 'entertainment'
>>
>> Anyone may watch supersport matches where they please and drink smoke
>> etc but children must be protected. Try talking to someone whose child
>> is exposed to this and lets hear what they have to say.
>>
>> This is not about kadhi's courts, this is about protecting children in
>> Kenya and clearly the authorities there felt that it was an important
>> move to make,  This is not about shariah or the current/new
>> constitution or any of that..... but about right thinking adults
>> seeking to protect children. It just so happens to be a step taken by
>> a people in an area vastly populated by Muslims...
>> I laud DSTV for not jumping on the bandwagon and making rash comments
>> and connections but monitoring ( read gather correct information) the
>> situation before putting egg on their faces...kudos Isaboke and
>> Ondimu.
>>
>> Kenya is not a secular state. If it was, Raila would not go to such
>> lengths to get himself baptized, and neither would the President going
>> to church on Sunday be attended to by ministers and PSs and televised
>> to boot.  Incidentally, I would like to know who fuels his car and
>> pays for this bodyguards on Sunday  when he attends church - yes,
>> yours and my hard earned taxes.
>>
>> Let us try and be be responsible over some of the connections we make
>> I think that there is no doubt that the kadhis courts are about
>> personal, family and inheritance law for the Muslims and in no way
>> affects non muslims...so please vote yes...Jesus does say love your
>> neighbour.....so do love us please.
>>
>> I challenge wainaina et all to find out more about shariah
>> law...especially its inception and framework of implementation before
>> the law is applied....and rest assured that Kenya is no where ready
>> for this......and not in our great grand childrens lifetimes either.
>> Please get facts from a reputable book or institutions some of the
>> drivel I have read....!!!!
>> kionjoo.....
>> Do you think that the KRA would be ready and willing to take care of
>> the poor and underpriviledged in this country by making sure that all
>> eat ( three meals a day) get educated ( at public costs fully) have
>> roofs over each and every head? using the taxes of the rich and
>> priveledged to make sure that the poor and underpreviledged lead a
>> minimum acceptable basic existence thus eliminating any reason to for
>> example steal.......that is the FIRST demand shariah law would make
>> upon its government.....yep Kenya not ready for this at all!
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Fatma
>>
>>  PS, as I am not a scholar on islamic studies the views above are
>> personla but anchored on my limited understanding of fiqh islamic
>> law..
>>
>>
>>
>> On 4/27/10, Wainaina Mungai <wainaina at madeinkenya.org> wrote:
>>> The recent move by Muslim Sheikhs to enforce Sharia Law, outlaw DSTV,
>>> video dens & related activities in Mandera could not have come at a
>>> more unfortunate time. The support they have received from SUPREM
>>> (Supreme Council of Kenya Muslims) further complicates the debate on
>>> the "continued" inclusion of Kadhi Courts in our Constitution.
>>>
>>> Now that the SUPKEM has proved to support such apparent 'treason' in
>>> my secular nation,  President Kibaki and Prime Minister Odinga must
>>> also commit to ensuring that religion and religious courts are omitted
>>> from the new constitution. That is the pact they must sign with the NO
>>> campaign if a YES vote is to sail through without question. No
>>> religion, especially fundamentalist Islam, should enjoy the privileges
>>> of my hard-earned taxes to propagate religious activities that may
>>> disintegrate into such treasonable actions as by the Sheikhs.
>>>
>>> My vote would easily change to a resounding "NO" unless I am assured
>>> by the Constitution that no Sheikh or Buddist monk, Hindu priest or
>>> Christian cleric will get away with the absurd audacity of attempting
>>> to determine where I watch my Supersport matches, what I drink as I do
>>> so; where and what I can smoke or drink in an independent secular
>>> KENYA.
>>>
>>> No religion should 'get it twisted' on its place in secular Kenya and
>>> no loopholes should allow Sheikhs or SUPKEM to get away with such
>>> treasonable actions.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Wainaina
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent from my mobile device
>>>
>>> Wainaina Mungai
>>> -----
>>> http://www.bungesms.com
>>> http://www.madeinkenya.org
>>> http://www.wainainamungai.com
>>>
>>> Thousands of candles can be lighted from a single candle, and the life
>>> of the candle will not be shortened. Happiness never decreases by
>>> being shared. ~ Buddha~
>>>
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>>
>
>
> --
>
> Sent from my mobile device
>
> Wainaina Mungai
> -----
> http://www.bungesms.com
> http://www.madeinkenya.org
> http://www.wainainamungai.com
>
> Thousands of candles can be lighted from a single candle, and the life
> of the candle will not be shortened. Happiness never decreases by
> being shared. ~ Buddha~
>
>
>
>

-- 
Wainaina Mungai
-----
http://www.bungesms.com
http://www.madeinkenya.org
http://www.wainainamungai.com

Thousands of candles can be lighted from a single candle, and the life
of the candle will not be shortened. Happiness never decreases by
being shared. ~ Buddha~