[kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus

Wed Apr 7 20:27:42 EAT 2010

Robert

Pole sana. I did not know you were playing devils advocate :)

Thanks

On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 6:41 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi,
> Broadband is here and roads a better, why is it that we sit in Nairobi or
> along the Mombasa Kisumu highway and assume that all is bliss.
> As a Kenyan I am giving my feedback to my minister, acting as the devils
> advocate on forums like this so that you stop deceiving your selves that all
> is fine, and I provide my clients with practical, cost effective solutions.
> I make sure that every shilling spend by my clients adds something on the
> bottom line, I am not a dreamer, I am a realist which is why I can assure
> you that the bus issue is dead in the water.
> In addition I believe I took my time and skill to present an alternative to
> the bus, what more is expected of me.
> As the former president said, when I was seated at the front driving the bus
> there where pick pockets in the back.  He played his part & so have I.
> Regards
>
> Robert Yawe
> KAY System Technologies Ltd
> Phoenix House, 6th Floor
> P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200
> Kenya
>
> Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
>
> ________________________________
> From: Agosta Liko <agostal at gmail.com>
> To: robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk>
> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> Sent: Wed, 7 April, 2010 13:40:21
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus
>
> my point is really simple.
>
> we have broadband, security is better, roads are better.
>
> what are you doing as a Kenyan ?
>
> am saying start with the man in the mirror and then point fingers...
>
> On 4/7/10, robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> Hi Liko,
>>
>> Please make a trip to any government office location and count how many
>> vehicles are grounded, if they cannot sort out a toyota vits that operated
>> within Nairobi how do you expect them to service a bus that travels around
>> a
>> district?
>>
>> In todays paper there is an issue of funds allocated to a none-existent
>> hospital in Kayole can your imagine how much easier it will be to
>> misdirect
>> funds to a moving object.
>>
>> It is good that you got to experience the moving bus so do you want us to
>> stop schools from stocking their local libraries, the moving movies died
>> because TVs became cheaper and we bought VCRs.  A technology must be
>> looked
>> at in the context of time.
>>
>> The moving bus can be equated to the computer lab at the Univeristy, yet
>> we
>> can today provide every student with a desktop in their room or a laptop
>> to
>> carry around at the same price.  If safaricom can negotiate for a laptop
>> at
>> 24,000/- shillings imagine how much more muscle the government has, but it
>> wont because the decision makers still remember the travelling library and
>> refuse to change with the times.
>>
>> Just to go back to the 2007 elections when Orange house was raided by
>> thugs
>> and Hon. Nyongo said that is was instigated by their opponents to get
>> access
>> to their membership list, this was a clear indication that he has not used
>> a
>> flash disk or send a file attachment because he still remembers the
>> airconditioned computer room when he was in University.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Think global, act local
>>  Robert Yawe
>> KAY System Technologies Ltd
>> Phoenix House, 6th Floor
>> P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200
>> Kenya
>>
>>
>> Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Agosta Liko <agostal at gmail.com>
>> To: robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk>
>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>> Sent: Wed, 7 April, 2010 13:12:08
>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus
>>
>> Robert
>>
>> I really dont see an issue with internet by bus.. its a step in the
>> right direction ... can be made better but one has to start from
>> somewhere. Internet by bus would work well cos the bus would move
>> around schools bringing workstations to many places. If a constituency
>> has 10 workstations, one can make the case that making them mobile
>> would serve more people as opposed to putting them in one location
>>
>> When I was growing up Kenya National Library used to bring books, KCB
>> used to have a landrover to bring banking to the people and Cinema Leo
>> used to bring movies. With time, that model has died ... but it served
>> a purpose.....
>>
>> see, there is a big challenge in kenya
>>
>> if you give schools desktops ... some people would say laptops are a
>> better
>> fit
>>
>> if you give schools laptops ... some people would say desktops are
>> better fit and hard to steal
>>
>>
>> You say that BPO is a joke ... I am sure that over 3000 kenyans work
>> in that sector now ... and its all semantics if you look at things.
>> See, Your company manages services {at Orange :) } for clients. So you
>> are in the local BPO ....
>>
>> I respond because I borrowed books from that Kenya National Library
>> bus, Watched Films at the market and I work in the local BPO sector.
>>
>> Also ... please take time and go through this speech by JFK ...
>> http://www.famousquotes.me.uk/speeches/John_F_Kennedy/5.htm
>>
>> Incase you are very busy .. Its always summed up as follows
>>
>> "ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for
>> your country."
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 12:53 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> I disagree on the issue of the bus, last I checked God was not sending
>>> out
>>> bills for solar unlike KPLC & the fuel companies would, so why are we
>>> obsessed with physical connections.
>>> Lets role out practical sustainable solutions that will not break down
>>> soon
>>> after implementation, the african needs to stop thinking seasonally we
>>> need
>>> to see the bigger picture.  Lets agree that the bus concept was a half
>>> brainer and move onto a better model.
>>> You mentioned the issue of India please search for an article called the
>>> "hole in the wall" experiment and then based on that we role out ICT
>>> everywhere. Let us begin where the service can be paid for which I
>>> believe
>>> is at the district headquarters to which the government has laid fibre.
>>> We
>>> use this as a hub and fern outwards.
>>> In addition Bwana PS your concept on empowering the local authorities to
>>> carry out the metro cables is brilliant so lets follow it through and use
>>> the LATIF fund to implement.
>>> We can then centralise the functions such as HR, finance and procurement
>>> and
>>> use the savings to pay for the terrestrial fibre cable.  90% of these
>>> activities do not need Internet access thus they should have been
>>> implement
>>> without waiting for the marine cables.
>>> The local authorities would then connect their schools and implement a
>>> centralised management system that would then sort out the issue of
>>> students
>>> being in school for 8 years without ID cards.
>>> This issue is not rocket science nor brain surgery, it just needs basic
>>> reasoning and practical application, the bus was a joke & BPO is a bigger
>>> joke so lets get out from the centre ring and get back to reality.
>>> I have a serious problem with detail which is not a fault as I see the
>>> bigger picture where others see dots and might explain why I have not
>>> done
>>> a
>>> phd on the mating habits of the anorphalise mosquito because that will be
>>> a
>>> pixel.  I know that when I spray doom on the mosquito it dies how is
>>> irrelevant.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Robert Yawe
>>> KAY System Technologies Ltd
>>> Phoenix House, 6th Floor
>>> P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200
>>> Kenya
>>>
>>> Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: "bitange at jambo.co.ke" <bitange at jambo.co.ke>
>>> To: robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk
>>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>> Sent: Tue, 6 April, 2010 23:06:35
>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus
>>>
>>> Vitalis,
>>> Lack of electricity is one of the lame excuses we use to stop linking our
>>> rural areas. You can now provide Broadband anywhere in the country.
>>> Safaricom has done it to Digital Villages in Karachwonyo and Ugenya.
>>> Indeed
>>> in Karachwonyo their was neither electricity nor tarmaked roads.
>>>
>>> The bus idea was a self contained project that did not require the
>>> luxuries
>>> you mention here. If we really want to develop this country and expand
>>> opportunity we must stop sounding like foreigners in this country. We
>>> must
>>> learn to be creative and speak less. We must refuse donor money and start
>>> individual social responsibilty. We must have faith in our abilities.
>>> Saying
>>> we cannot manage a bus in a constituency is defeatist and eroding the
>>> confidence of ever managing our resources.
>>>
>>> Ndemo.
>>>
>>> Sent from my BlackBerry®
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Vitalis Olunga <volunga at yahoo.com>
>>> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 12:29:13 -0700 (PDT)
>>> To: <bitange at jambo.co.ke>
>>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus
>>> Thanks  a lot Bwana PS for your comprehensive response on this issuue
>>> regardless of my getting into this discussion too late. I am very sorry
>>> about this lateness.  Of cause  I did  not mean political or legal
>>> feasiblty, as this could only mean "a sacred  cow project. " What I had
>>> in
>>> mind tends toward economic and technical feasibilty. Of cause not
>>> commercial
>>> viability.  You have indeed responded comphensively in all areas,
>>> therefore
>>> I don't intend to pursue the matter any further.  However, there are
>>> few points of interest which I would wish to share (but not into
>>> details).
>>>
>>> It may not necessarily require to carryout feasibility study to deploy
>>> computers in rural schools, but it may be necessary, at the very basic,
>>> to
>>> gather some information e.g. availability of power, and connectivity or
>>> broadband access (fixed and mobile network coverage), before distributing
>>> computers to theses schools.  This may sound simple, but there are a few
>>> of
>>> cases in the past where computers have been donated to some schools in
>>> rural
>>> areas before electricty is connected.  To carryout this kind of exercise
>>> may
>>> not require paying someone huge sums of fee.  This can be done using even
>>> internal resources (assuming they exist), with minimal help from a local
>>> consutant. Some of the data may be readily available and whta may be
>>> requred
>>> is only to convert it into useful information.
>>>
>>> Digital villages in each constituency was "a very bright idea".  This
>>> could
>>> be usefull in nhancing demand for ICT to rural commuinities and to extend
>>> the same to schools as well.  This is where public private parnership
>>> could
>>> play a fundamental role, with involvement of all the satakeholders.
>>> Alternaetively the ministry of education (with the rural communities)
>>> could
>>> identify at least two  distritric/ provicial schools (Boys' & Gilrls' OR
>>> Mixed) in each constituency where there is braodaband access (assuming
>>> electricity already exists), or the Ministry of Ifo. could work with the
>>> service providers to provide broadband aceess last mile distribution.  In
>>> this case the cost of overeheads required to run such a prpject will be
>>> minimal (no fuel to run the bus, no bus drivers, no maitenace costs of
>>> buses
>>> due to poor condition of rural access roads).  Also some schools may be
>>> located in "shadow zones" with no signals, and will not be linked by "ICT
>>> Bus".  The eviroments differ in every country, though "adaptation" can
>>> also
>>> work.
>>>
>>> With the use of digital villages or ICT school labs, then the excellent,
>>> bright and succesful initiatives/projects  such as Data Centres, NOFBI,
>>> Teams, etc.  can be of greater benefits to the rural schools through
>>> e-Learning.  To train the teacher first, on how to use ICT, before traing
>>> the child is importnat, to avoid or limit computer numbers gathering dust
>>> in
>>> some corners. Similar appraoch/pilot project can be replicated for
>>> e-Health
>>> to connect all district hosiptals to a Central Data Portal. In this case,
>>> training the doctor before nurse is essential. Is to importnat to note
>>> that
>>> involving too many committes in a prpject is a challenge. "Too many rats
>>> never dig a hole."  Having a Data Centre without (or limited)
>>> access/connectivity  may negligible impact or benefit. CDF management
>>> is already complex and challenging. This where one meets with
>>> numrous political projects at times.
>>> I intend to stop here, and not to pursue it any more. However, I can
>>> expand
>>> my thoughts in another forum.  Thanks for the good work and great ideas.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>>
>>> Vitalis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: "bitange at jambo.co.ke" <bitange at jambo.co.ke>
>>> To: Vitalis Olunga <volunga at yahoo.com>
>>> Cc: bitange at jambo.co.ke; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>>> <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>> Sent: Sun, April 4, 2010 7:08:38 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus
>>>
>>> Dear Vitalis,
>>> My brother you are getting into this matter too late.  For a start, you
>>> are confusing issues when you ask for a feasibility study.  Although I do
>>> not know which feasibility (legal, economic, technical etc) you wanted in
>>> place, it is unwise in my view to pay someone to do a feasibility study
>>> on
>>> whether you need to deploy computers in the rural areas.  Before we made
>>> the proposal to treasury, we developed a concept note and observed a
>>> similar bus that has been providing similar services to kids in Mathare
>>> and Kibera.  The concept is based on an Indian model that has been very
>>> successful in arousing interest in ICT (boosting the demand side) in
>>> rural
>>> India.  Basically, the objective was to create demand for ICT services
>>> among the rural folks, introduce ICTs on a pilot basis to schools, youth
>>> and villagers in all constituencies.  The project was to be supported by
>>> digital villages throughout the country.  Each bus was to have two
>>> qualified ICT instructors and managed by District Education Boards as
>>> well
>>> as CDF committees.
>>> This was a well thought idea and fits in with devolved resources idea
>>> that
>>> we have all been pushing as a basis of equitable distribution of
>>> resources.  The project was fought from day 1 as not feasible.  To date
>>> nobody has tabled a feasibility study that helped them arrive at that
>>> decision.  Ni kupiga mudomo tu.  Why do we make so much noise about
>>> devolved funds if several committees cannot manage one bus per
>>> constituency?  Several studies show that countries that bought computers
>>> and simply put them in class have not seen the benefit since not even the
>>> teachers use them.  Why?  Because they did not create the demand for ICTs
>>> in the first place.  In places where you have digital villages, you hear
>>> people talking about their e-mail, people wanting e-learning platform
>>> etc.
>>> We have been successful with digital villages because we avoided
>>> unnecessary subsidies and introduced them as enterprises.  Several
>>> countries deployed these digital villages through NGOs, Donors and direct
>>> Government subsidy.  They have failed.  The bus was to drive demand for
>>> e-services in rural areas.
>>> Where we are in terms of development, we need to take a bit of risk by
>>> moving to design and implementation and stop wasting resources on the so
>>> called feasibility studies.  Teams, NOFBI, GCCN, Data Centers, etc are
>>> some of the most successful projects that were done in record period by
>>> simply moving to design and implementation.  Of course design begets you
>>> technical feasibility.  Much of economic feasibility can be discerned
>>> through googling similar projects.  Note Piloting a concept that has
>>> already succeeded elsewhere and within does not require detailed
>>> feasibility since you know the outcomes.  Further it is usually difficult
>>> to quantify social benefits as in the bus case in order to have an
>>> objective feasibility study.
>>>
>>> Ndemo.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Sorry to respond on this a little bit too late.  My question is whether
>>>> whether there was any feasibility study carried out before allocation of
>>>> funds to  this "ICT Bus Projects."  It would be prudent to share such a
>>>> report with satakeholders. The sustainability of such a project could be
>>>> questionable. If other strategic alternatives (including building
>>>> computer
>>>> labs in schools) were considered, then the reasons for making this
>>>> choice
>>>> (ICT Bus) would be of interest to share, even if it is meant to be for a
>>>> quick fix solution.  E-education/learning is definitly a very important
>>>> area that needs to be given a priority and .  There are some
>>>> interestesting analyses
>>>>
>>>> Regrds
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Vitalis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>________________________________
>>>> From: robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk>
>>>> To: volunga at yahoo.com
>>>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>>> Sent: Thu, March 25, 2010 5:39:31 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I refuse to acknowledge the regional issues because I come from an in an
>>>> industry that has no ethnicity or regional divide.
>>>>
>>>> I plead with you stop selling yourself short by getting embroiled in
>>>> political side shows, if we set out our objective and kept to the plan
>>>> we
>>>> can achieve what I have proposed and more.
>>>>
>>>> Even if I asked you to volunteer to go to Mandera and teach ICT you
>>>> definitely will not, it makes more sense to train the teacher already on
>>>> the ground.  We can roll out across the country simultaneously as we are
>>>> not using a single contractor to build the labs or install the solar or
>>>> the cabling.
>>>>
>>>> Just like with the CDF if the area representatives cannot identify their
>>>> priority areas then lets not try to force it down their throats.
>>>>
>>>> Before teaching a man to fish make sure he does eat fish.
>>>>
>>>> Technology knows no bounds only the human mind constrains itself
>>>>
>>>> Robert Yawe
>>>> KAY System Technologies Ltd
>>>> Phoenix House, 6th Floor
>>>> P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200
>>>> Kenya
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>________________________________
>>>> From: "bitange at jambo.co.ke" <bitange at jambo.co.ke>
>>>> To: robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk>
>>>> Cc: bitange at jambo.co.ke; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>>>> <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>>> Sent: Wed, 24 March, 2010 19:15:50
>>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus
>>>>
>>>> Robert,
>>>> Things are not as easy as you write here.  Today in Kenya you cannot try
>>>> to do anything without taking into account of regional interests.  I
>>>> hope
>>>> you are watching the constitutional process and the regional emotions.
>>>> Imagine if we were to start with schools in the ASAL region promising to
>>>> cover the entire country in the next five years.  Consider that Ministry
>>>> of Education does not have adequate number of teachers as we speak yet
>>>> you
>>>> will need at least one computer teacher in the 20,000 primary schools
>>>> and
>>>> 9,000 secondary schools.
>>>>
>>>> If we need to close the digital divide, we all must change.  We must for
>>>> example begin volunteering to teach both the students and the unemployed
>>>> youth computers.  By so doing, you will one day live to say what you did
>>>> for your country.  Like it is said "it is easier said than done".
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ndemo.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems that some sanity is coming into the education realm with the
>>>>> Hon.
>>>>> Minister Dr. Ongeri canceling the proposed ICT Bus project, I believe
>>>>> once
>>>>> bitten twice shy.
>>>>>
>>>>> The project was to cost Kes. 1.2  B with each bus costing Kes. 7
>>>>> Million
>>>>> which equates to 171 buses that is roughly 24 buses per province this
>>>>> was
>>>>> surely another scan in the making.  I remember the MP of Kisumu Hon.
>>>>> Shabbir raising the issue of the buses and getting dismissed as a self
>>>>> seeking technology Neanderthal, lets hope this is the beginning of
>>>>> sanity
>>>>> in the ICT arena, but if I was you I wouldn't hold my breath.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect that the concept of mobile computer labs was a thinking from
>>>>> the
>>>>> mobile library project but someone forgot that with a library the books
>>>>> are left behind.
>>>>>
>>>>> With Kes 7 million we could do much more than just a single bus with 20
>>>>> computer that requires a driver, insurance, service, generators, and
>>>>> many
>>>>> other thinks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is my suggestion on how the 7 million could be better utilised to
>>>>> meet the objectives.
>>>>>
>>>>> - 20% to be used for physical facilities (stone & mortar) - Kes. 1.4 M
>>>>> -
>>>>> This can build 150 sq m of classroom space inclusive of electrical
>>>>> wiring
>>>>> & burger proofed windows. An average computer lab is 15 sq m which
>>>>> means
>>>>> we can build 10 labs and each can accommodate 20 screens/pcs.  We could
>>>>> build even more labs if the Ministry if Housing provided the
>>>>> interlocking
>>>>> soil block making machines
>>>>>
>>>>> - 30% to be used for provision of power to the lab - Kes. 2.1 million
>>>>> we
>>>>> which we need to provide sufficient power.  The computers will need to
>>>>> be
>>>>> low power consumers therefore we use TFT screens and cpu sharing
>>>>> devices
>>>>> that allow 1 computer to be used simultaneously by 4 or more students.
>>>>> With this our power requirement for each lab would be below 1,000 VA
>>>>> which
>>>>> can easily be supplied by a few solar panels and a battery bank.
>>>>>
>>>>> - 20% for the actual hardware - Kes. 1.4 M - DC powered computers,
>>>>> printers and GSM modem with a good proxy server to provide local
>>>>> caching.
>>>>> This will also include structured cabling which will be done by the
>>>>> graduats of the kazi kwa Vijani initiative where they will have been
>>>>> offered technical training.
>>>>>
>>>>> -  20% teacher training - Kes. 1.4 M, even if we have them certified in
>>>>> ICDL we shall be able to train 66 teachers which would provide enough
>>>>> computer teachers.
>>>>>
>>>>> - 10% well I leave you to decide what to do with that, note that there
>>>>> are
>>>>> no recurrent costs such as drivers, diesel, electricity costs (God does
>>>>> not charge for solar, yet).
>>>>>
>>>>> The 10 labs can be used by the schools during the day and could be made
>>>>> available to the community in the evenings and as digital villages over
>>>>> the weekends where content can be generated, yes local content (ask me
>>>>> for
>>>>> details).
>>>>>
>>>>> Now that I have spend the equivalent of 1 bus to create 10 centers why
>>>>> won't we actually do this, because I did not factor in the feasibility
>>>>> study costs, 30%, seminars and workshops 50%, sitting allowances 20%
>>>>> and
>>>>> well nothing else to include as the preliminary costs have already
>>>>> consumed the 7 million.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ongeri hurray but lets hope the money will not go to drinking water and
>>>>> writing materials for a bonding session.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Robert Yawe
>>>>> KAY System Technologies Ltd
>>>>> Phoenix House, 6th Floor
>>>>> P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200
>>>>> Kenya
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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