[kictanet] ICDL and foreign certifications for basic computer usage

Thu Dec 3 09:08:10 EAT 2009

Hi All,

Just wondering why we seem to have a problem with ICDL for computer literacy certification and calling it 'foreign'. It is a widely accepted vendor neutral standard. Even if we develop our own, wouldn't it be based on 'foreign' software (Microsoft Office, Lotus, OpenOffice, etc)? 

It is true a local certification would help save the fees paid to foreign certification organisations. But since we do not yet have a local solution, the government is justified in settling on a tried and tested available computer literacy certification and should be applauded rather than condemned.

I take this to be a challenge to local ICT experts to develop standards that the government (and others) can adapt, otherwise the available 'foreign' ones will always be the default. Today it is ICDL, who knows, next might be CCNA (Cisco) or CISA (ISACA) as the government standard.

My thoughts.

Regards,

Jotham K. Mwale

--- On Wed, 12/2/09, Sam Aguyo <saguyo at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Sam Aguyo <saguyo at yahoo.com>
Subject: [kictanet] ICDL and foreign certifications for basic computer usage
To: jokilimo at yahoo.com
Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 8:00 AM

Hi Robert,
I agree with you absolutely regarding ICDL as a measure of literacy.  However when we start the discussions we need to bring every body on board by providing some background information.  For example you say that there are 3 mature curriculum, which ones are they and developed by who - KIE, KASNEB or Bob, how far have they gone in addressing our objective of measuring literacy? Then we can effectively contribute to the discussion.  Again we need to be a little bit careful on our language as we address fellow
 professionals lest be considered an empty debe (tin) which i believe one is not.

We are apparently missing out something in the discussion which majors on a body that can measure IT literacy and issue a
 certificate to an individual Kenyan am left wondering how software development comes in.  Do we expect literacy to entail programming?

Sam

From: robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk>
To: saguyo at yahoo.com
Cc: Kictanet Mail list <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Sent: Wed, December 2, 2009 12:28:50 PM
Subject: Re: [kictanet] [ke-internetusers] ICDL and foreign certifications for basiccomputer usage

One Micheal Joseph called Kenyans peculiar and as I have mentioned before in my posts, I am a true Kenyan peculiar to other humans and for this reason if no other ICDL will not meet my requirements because I do not fit into the world demographic.

A wheel is supposed to be round, why would I try to make a square one as so that I can arrive at the logic behind a round wheel?

We have 3 or more mature curriculum on IT proficiency so there is absolutely no reason for us to import another.  LEt us remain peculiar and be proud of it, we are not an asian tiger nation because we are not asian, we are an african leopard, cheetah, lion or hyena.  

Ours
 should be to develop a curriculum for export to east and central africa not ape (literally) others.

Robert Yawe

KAY System Technologies Ltd

Phoenix House, 6th Floor

P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200

Kenya

Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696

--- On Tue, 1/12/09, joseph james <jjngatia at gmail.com> wrote:

From: joseph james <jjngatia at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ke-internetusers] ICDL and foreign certifications for  basiccomputer usage
To: "Evans Ikua" <ikua.evans at gmail.com>
Cc: "ke-users" <ke-internetusers at bdix.net>
Date: Tuesday, 1 December, 2009, 7:09

Dear Evans,

I might choose to agree and differ on many points in your discussions. One for the ICDL option, its independent and has world recognition and the question is simple; Can KIE develop a curricula that achieve such similar status? Yes and No. So while we appreciate the flat world, the consumers are now better placed to choose what they want to buy, indulge, watch, learn and so forth.

4 out 5 Kenyans are certifications/paper- focused; most kenyans believe in getting certified and this is one major virus we need to clean. Again, most would want to get a certifiction that comes with international recognition in over 146 countries (work anywhere and for whoever). This cert virus  has resulted from the CPF culture (CRAM-PASS- FORGET culture) that most pupils and students acquire all through the 8:4:4 curriculum.    

Most Governments have recognized ICDL, Kenya is just joining the pack. I believe in standards and innovating; Asia has prospered and left many African nations way behind, by adapting and adopting western world technological advancement. I think this is what we should do, or had done earlier. If we started earlier on and built standards and focused on quality training, we would have our certification and maybe share with the rest of continent if not the world. We were beaten to that by ICDL organisation.  We need not recreate the wheel now. May be what should be the question main is finding measures on how how to reduce costs of pursuing ICDL from above Kes. 30,000 to may be Kes.14,000. It's possible and we may try adopting eLearning technologies. (I should have said I am an eLearning champion)

So while we can train using ICDL for now, we can embark on building our own curriculum that beats ICDL. It's just a matter of time and with zero politic on such processes. I am a real optimist by all means; but for now while most Kenyans are hooked to foreign everything basic; food, clothes, shelter, media, culture, technology, education... Its upon organized groups making us proud with homegrown solutions that have a global feel and can be exported to other nations. It will be a Kenyanization effect.      

On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:09 AM, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans at gmail.com> wrote:

I remember there was some discussion some time back about training standards. What was the outcome of that meeting? Anyone on this list who has some info?

This is really pathetic. What is it with Kenyans and Foreign goods? Does the ICDL or any other certification for that matter, add any knowledge to someone? Is knowledge in a piece of paper or in the delivery of the training? Do you have any idea about the amount of money we lose to the UK for IMIS every year? While an individual has the right to choose what to take, I think its the epitome of ignorance to have the Government imposing on poor people an expensive end user qualification.

Like I have said before, those living in Nairobi have forgotten that the country is bigger than Nairobi. We cant therefore see how someone cant afford 30k for an end user certificate. So how about the poor people who live on a dollar a day? Are we saying that they will never get jobs because they cant prove their end user skills? We need to wake up! 

On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 8:48 AM, anthony. musunji <tonzo1 at gmail.com> wrote:

I think Evans has introduced a valid dimension in this argument .Since Accountants have been able to develop a valid and recognised certification format,  why can't the local IT proffessionals \ fraternity develop or promote its own certification .I am also keen to hear what KASNEB has to say about this development . 

My 2 cents

Anthony Musunji 

On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 8:21 AM, Alex Gakuru <gakuru at gmail.com> wrote:

Evans,

You may be pleased to know that the Kenya Accountants and Secretaries
National Examinations Board (KASNEB) in 2006 introduced two examinable

courses( 1 Professional Level("CICT"), 1 Technician Level"ICTT"). Last
week, KASNEB Secretary and CEO kindly send me copies of the syllabus
-(commencement June 2009)

I have copied this message to KASNEB CEO with the hope that they may

be interested in joining this list at least for the purpose of this
discussion?

Kind regards,

Alex

On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 9:32 PM, Josiah Mugambi <jmugambi at gmail.com> wrote:
> Evan's argument was regarding the cost of certification, not platform - and

> whether KIE can develop a local certification instead of 'sending forex
> abroad'
>
> On Nov 30, 2009 8:58 PM, "DAI" <svarrer at digitalageinstitute.com> wrote:

>
> ICDL is platform independent. Period.
>
>> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Evans Ikua > To: ke-users > Sent:
>> > Monday, November 30, 200...
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Kind regards,

James J Ngatia

Q: I could not, at any age, be content to take my place by the fireside and simply look on. Life was meant to be lived. Curiosity must be kept alive. One must never, for whatever reason, turn his back on life.

ELEANOR ROOSEVELT:

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Hi Robert,

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