[kictanet] Seacom goes live- wait for TEAMS
Joseph Mucheru
mucheru at google.com
Sat Aug 1 03:41:23 EAT 2009
Walu,
I personally think it is a bit simpler than that. Over the many years we
have lobbied for better services and/or prices in the country, the one sure
thing that always worked was competition. In the case of the cables, I think
the competitive pressures are much more for the operators as the investment
(stakes) are much higher. By various calculations both Seacom and Teams have
more than three times the current bandwidth demand. That means the wiser
operators will not only be the ones that are first to market, but those that
give the right price to attract the economies of scale they need to ever get
back their investment. Any operator that delays this process will only have
much more future cost to convincing consumers to get onto their network.
I am convinced right now it is a consumers market and what will be
interesting is which operators are able to see things from a long-term
perspective and win the market. The fact that some operators have a much
broader and wider local loop infrastructure only makes this more interesting
and does not give outright victory to one.
In summary, investment in the cables is a sunk cost and the game now is who
can get the user numbers on their network. Any short-term gains by an
operator through higer prices will cost them significantly more in the
long-run.
my 2cts worth
Joe Mucheru
On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Walubengo J <jwalu at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Waudo,
>
> Difference -at least on paper- is that TEAMS was put up with Tax payers
> money by close to 40% (i think). So you and me have a 40% say or demand
> that they sell the bandwidth commodity at cost. But you and me (tax payers)
> have 0% (zero%) shares in SEACOM.
>
> SEACOM was put up with 100% private money - only the individual
> shareholders can decide on pricing (remember the famous SAT3 cable on the
> west-african cost that had little impact on pricing? the individual
> shareholders decided to keep the prices just 1-5% below satellite in order
> to recoup investment with the shortest timeframes. 15 years later, the
> prcing was still the same at 1-5% satellite costs. That is called Business-
> increasing shareholders value and yes nobody should apologies for that)
>
> In short, SEACOM can go the SAT3 way and you and CCK can shout as much as
> they want and they have every right not to care. BUT with TEAMS you and i
> do have a say - however small it is or it maybe.
>
> And its pretty grey area how say like Safcom with shares on both cables can
> be compelled to reduce prices because if push comes to shove Safcom can say
> their data is strictly running on the (private) SEACOM cable which is exempt
> from all the regulatory pressures. It can chose to say TEAMS is simply it
> back-up route.
>
> Thats why I think we are breaking new ground here and its going to be very
> interesting...
>
> walu.
>
>
> --- On Fri, 7/31/09, waudo siganga <emailsignet at mailcan.com> wrote:
>
> > From: waudo siganga <emailsignet at mailcan.com>
> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Seacom goes live- wait for TEAMS
> > To: "Walubengo J" <jwalu at yahoo.com>
> > Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> > Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 9:30 PM
> > Hi Walu - I do not understand the
> > difference in the treatment of shares
> > in SEACOM and TEAMS. All these cables sell the same
> > commodity:
> > bandwidth. I can see the same corporates sitting on the
> > boards of each
> > and every one of these cables to set the wholesale prices.
> > How does
> > competition work in these circumstances? Anyway let us take
> > the PSs word
> > and wait for October. He certainly has better information
> > than us.
> >
> > Waudo
> >
> > On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 09:25 -0700, "Walubengo J" <jwalu at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > > its going to be very interesting how this ict
> > landscape evolves. the
> > > tensions between private interests (read capitalism)
> > visa-viz the public
> > > good (read govt mandate to protect) is going to be
> > prominent over the
> > > next couple of months.
> > >
> > > my take is that Safaricom shares in SEACOM is private
> > money and as such
> > > they have no apologies nor obligation to reduce prices
> > for anyone.
> > > However, their shares in the TEAMS project will be
> > subject to public good
> > > and it will be very interesting how the dynamics of
> > that part of the
> > > cable plays out over the next couple of months.
> > >
> > > walu.
> > >
> > > --- On Fri, 7/31/09, bitange at jambo.co.ke
> > <bitange at jambo.co.ke>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: bitange at jambo.co.ke
> > <bitange at jambo.co.ke>
> > > > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Seacom goes live?
> > > > To: jwalu at yahoo.com
> > > > Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> >
> > > > Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 7:57 PM
> > > > Hatari,
> > > > I do not think there is course for concern yet.
> > There
> > > > are far too many
> > > > operators with significant access to Broadband
> > capacity
> > > > that can shake up
> > > > prices downwards. As such, there is absolutely
> > no
> > > > reason to call for
> > > > price regulation. My prediction is that by
> > Oct./Nov.
> > > > you should see
> > > > significant reductions in both voice and data.
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ndemo.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Waudo
> > > > >
> > > > > It was more saddening to hear it from
> > Michael Joseph.
> > > > I wonder what PS
> > > > > Ndemo will say on this. We are not calling
> > for price
> > > > regulation. We are
> > > > > calling for transfer of benefits to users.
> > > > >
> > > > > We beg if thats what we must do to be heard
> > > > >
> > > > > OH
> > > > >
> > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >> From: emailsignet at mailcan.com
> > > > >> Sent: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 15:26:05 +0300
> > > > >> To: onyango at inbox.com
> > > > >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Seacom goes
> > live?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I agree with Hatari. After all the
> > hullabaloo
> > > > preeding this fibre
> > > > >> landings it is deflating to start
> > hearing stories
> > > > that the benefits to
> > > > >> consumers will be minimised as
> > investments are
> > > > recouped (after the
> > > > >> investments are re-couped will the
> > services be
> > > > free?).
> > > > >>
> > > > >> And Brian, Government licenses the
> > corporates to
> > > > serve Wananchi. Both
> > > > >> these players must show accountability
> > to
> > > > Wananchi.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Well done Hatari.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Waudo
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 03:41 -0800,
> > "Onyango Hatari"
> > > > <onyango at inbox.com>
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >>> Brian
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Is there anywhere I mentione
> > "everything"? Can
> > > > you address me on issues
> > > > >>> I
> > > > >>> raised and we should not start
> > engaging in
> > > > flame mail and sideshows.
> > > > >>> Address my issues.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> OH
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >>>> From: blongwe at gmail.com
> > > > >>>> Sent: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:24:27
> > +0300
> > > > >>>> To: onyango at inbox.com
> > > > >>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Seacom
> > goes live?
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> hmm, so government and large
> > corporates
> > > > are to blame for everything...
> > > > >>>> isn't that an overly simple
> > approach
> > > > towards addressing solutions to
> > > > >>>> aid our development?
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:57 PM,
> > Onyango
> > > > Hatari<onyango at inbox.com>
> > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Guys
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Its disgusting listening and
> > watching
> > > > Michael Joseph claim how the
> > > > >>>>> investors
> > > > >>>>> must re-coup their
> > investment. How
> > > > much must they continue to exploit
> > > > >>>>> their
> > > > >>>>> clients to "re-coup their
> > > > investments"? The price of brea was 100 and
> > > > >>>>> now
> > > > >>>>> has gone to 10 and the
> > retailer is
> > > > still charging 100 just to
> > > > >>>>> "re-coup
> > > > >>>>> their
> > > > >>>>> investment"?
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Is this the same MJ who said
> > that the
> > > > cost of doing business in Kenya
> > > > >>>>> is
> > > > >>>>> expensive. Thats an investor
> > must
> > > > invest in a 4WD, security and such?
> > > > >>>>> Then I
> > > > >>>>> wondered why we must have
> > investors
> > > > who cant even afford a 4WD?
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> We would rather have the
> > kadogo
> > > > economy than big ones who continue to
> > > > >>>>> exploit Kenyans even when
> > they hinted
> > > > how much costs will go down.
> > > > >>>>> The
> > > > >>>>> big
> > > > >>>>> mistake is that now PS Ndemo
> > who is
> > > > representing the government is
> > > > >>>>> quiet.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Michael, please can we see
> > the
> > > > transfer of savings to the common man.
> > > > >>>>> Thats
> > > > >>>>> when Kenyans will appreciate
> > you. We
> > > > must not see atleas the cost of
> > > > >>>>> 300
> > > > >>>>> MB
> > > > >>>>> coming from 1,000 to Ksh
> > 500. That way
> > > > you will still be making big
> > > > >>>>> profits
> > > > >>>>> but we will understand you.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> We need a government which
> > cares for
> > > > its citizens
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> OH
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >>>>> From: warigia at gmail.com
> > > > >>>>> Sent: Wed, 29 Jul 2009
> > 12:19:19 +0300
> > > > >>>>> To: onyango at inbox.com
> > > > >>>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet]
> > Seacom goes
> > > > live?
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Dear Brian and Michael
> > > > >>>>> So, what is the best way for
> > the
> > > > common mwananchi to take advantage
> > > > >>>>> of
> > > > >>>>> these
> > > > >>>>> higher speeds? Will we
> > experience them
> > > > if we have the small dial up
> > > > >>>>> through
> > > > >>>>> safaricom or do we need new
> > > > equipment.
> > > > >>>>> Sincerely, Warigia
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at
> > 12:07 PM,
> > > > Brian Munyao Longwe
> > > > >>>>> <blongwe at gmail.com>
> > > > >>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> As usual Michael, you are
> > right! I did
> > > > a traceroute  (connected on
> > > > >>>>> Onecom/Safaricom)
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> As you can see it hops into
> > London and
> > > > gets onto AS6453 in London
> > > > >>>>> which belongs to Tata.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Brian
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> BryoNet:~ macbook$
> > traceroute
> > > > www.yahoo.com
> > > > >>>>> traceroute to
> > www.wa1.b.yahoo.com
> > > > (69.147.76.15), 64 hops max, 40
> > > > >>>>> byte
> > > > >>>>> packets
> > > > >>>>> Â 1 Â 192.168.1.1
> > (192.168.1.1)
> > > >  1.302 ms  0.689 ms  0.677 ms
> > > > >>>>> Â 2
> > Â 41-203-221-209.onecom.co.ke
> > > > (41.203.221.209) Â 15.363 ms
> > > > >>>>> Â 4.641 ms
> > > > >>>>> 4.172
> > > > >>>>> ms
> > > > >>>>> Â 3
> > Â 41-203-216-12.onecom.co.ke
> > > > (41.203.216.12)  20.489 ms  6.503
> > > > >>>>> ms
> > > > >>>>> 3.367
> > > > >>>>> ms
> > > > >>>>> Â 4
> > Â 41-203-220-17.onecom.co.ke
> > > > (41.203.220.17)  5.089 ms  16.715
> > > > >>>>> ms
> > > > >>>>> 5.910
> > > > >>>>> ms
> > > > >>>>> Â 5
> > Â 41-203-220-2.onecom.co.ke
> > > > (41.203.220.2)  5.636 ms  4.041 ms
> > > > >>>>> 4.873
> > > > >>>>> ms
> > > > >>>>> Â 6 Â 196.201.222.17
> > > > (196.201.222.17)  12.243 ms  4.722 ms
> > Â 4.986
> > > > >>>>> ms
> > > > >>>>> Â 7
> > > > Â if-12-1-3.mcore3.ldn-london.as6453.net
> > > > (195.219.195.189)
> > > > >>>>> Â 238.321
> > > > >>>>> ms  183.554 ms
> > Â 187.807 ms
> > > > >>>>> Â 8
> > > > Â if-5-0-0-903.core3.aeq-ashburn.as6453.net
> > > > (195.219.195.154)
> > > > >>>>> 272.541 ms  274.972 ms
> > Â 279.118
> > > > ms
> > > > >>>>> Â 9
> > > > Â ix-3-0-9.core3.aeq-ashburn.as6453.net
> > (216.6.51.30)
> > > > Â 287.170
> > > > >>>>> ms
> > > > >>>>> 281.733 ms  277.584 ms
> > > > >>>>> 10
> > Â ae2-p140.msr1.re1.yahoo.com
> > > > (216.115.108.57) Â 272.322 ms
> > > > >>>>> ae1-p150.msr2.re1.yahoo.com
> > > > (216.115.108.21)  276.266 ms  269.433
> > > > >>>>> ms
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at
> > 12:02 PM,
> > > > Michael
> > > > >>>>> Joseph<MJoseph at safaricom.co.ke>
> > > > >>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>> I think they are using
> > Tata from
> > > > Mumbai but I may be wrong. Also
> > > > >>>>>> comprehensive tests are
> > not
> > > > complete but nevertheless it gave us an
> > > > >>>>>> opportunity to
> > experience much
> > > > faster speeds which can only get
> > > > >>>>>> better.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Michael
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> CEO
> > > > >>>>>> Safaricom Limited
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> -----Original
> > Message-----
> > > > >>>>>> From:
> > kictanet-bounces+mjoseph=safaricom.co.ke at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > [mailto:kictanet-bounces+mjoseph <kictanet-bounces%2Bmjoseph>=
> safaricom.co.ke at lists.kictanet.or.ke]
> > > > >>>>>> On
> > > > >>>>>> Behalf Of Maliti, Tom
> > > > >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July
> > 29, 2009
> > > > 11:46 AM
> > > > >>>>>> To: Michael Joseph
> > > > >>>>>> Cc: ke-users; KICTAnet
> > ICT Policy
> > > > Discussions
> > > > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet]
> > Seacom
> > > > goes live?
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Asante sana Brian.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> I also pinged while
> > connected to a
> > > > 1Gbps SEACOM connection last week
> > > > >>>>>> in
> > > > >>>>>> Mombasa and got similar
> > numbers to
> > > > what you got.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> The point is this: we
> > have fiber
> > > > in Kenya but our service providers
> > > > >>>>>> are
> > > > >>>>>> not taking it up, even
> > if it is
> > > > backup. There have been discussions
> > > > >>>>>> on
> > > > >>>>>> this
> > > > >>>>>> list and other fora
> > about the
> > > > urgency of fiber for a slew of big and
> > > > >>>>>> small
> > > > >>>>>> companies as well just
> > you and I
> > > > to be able to stream video without
> > > > >>>>>> interruption or spend
> > less time on
> > > > email (made possible by high
> > > > >>>>>> speed
> > > > >>>>>> connections). Somehow
> > our service
> > > > providers, with the exception of
> > > > >>>>>> one,
> > > > >>>>>> do
> > > > >>>>>> not get that.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Unless of course there
> > are others
> > > > who already have.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Tom Maliti
> > > > >>>>>> Correspondent
> > > > >>>>>> East Africa Bureau
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Direct line: +254 20 285
> > 9109
> > > > >>>>>> Office line: +254 20 285
> > 9000
> > > > >>>>>> Â Â Â Â Â
> > Â Â
> > > > Â Â +254 734 555 252
> > > > >>>>>> Fax: +254 20 2724726
> > > > >>>>>> Mobile +254 733 641 984
> > > > >>>>>> -----Original
> > Message-----
> > > > >>>>>> From: Brian Munyao
> > Longwe
> > > > [mailto:blongwe at gmail.com]
> > > > >>>>>> Sent: 29 July 2009
> > 11:24
> > > > >>>>>> To: Maliti, Tom
> > > > >>>>>> Cc: ke-users; KICTAnet
> > ICT Policy
> > > > Discussions
> > > > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet]
> > Seacom
> > > > goes live?
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Hi Tom,
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> SEACOM indeed started
> > providing
> > > > services last week, however the
> > > > >>>>>> service
> > > > >>>>>> being provided is not
> > the
> > > > *complete* SEACOM project.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> I understand that what
> > they lit up
> > > > is the portion that connects
> > > > >>>>>> SAT-3
> > > > >>>>>> in
> > > > >>>>>> South Africa upto
> > Mombasa -
> > > > therefore the international link is
> > > > >>>>>> going
> > > > >>>>>> via
> > > > >>>>>> SAT-3. The *complete*
> > system as
> > > > per their technical drawings
> > > > >>>>>> connects
> > > > >>>>>> from
> > > > >>>>>> Mumbai, India into
> > Djibouti and
> > > > thence across the EA seaboard. What
> > > > >>>>>> we
> > > > >>>>>> have
> > > > >>>>>> now is more of capacity
> > on their
> > > > "backup"
> > > > >>>>>> system. A traceroute or
> > 'ping'
> > > > across their present link reveals a
> > > > >>>>>> round-trip-time (RTT) of
> > about
> > > > 140ms-240ms - this is due to the
> > > > >>>>>> congestion
> > > > >>>>>> on SAT-3. A real
> > "end-to-end"
> > > > fiber system should yield RTT of
> > > > >>>>>> between
> > > > >>>>>> 7-30ms.... they,
> > nevertheless
> > > > called it a "launch"
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Needless to say, this is
> > much
> > > > better performance than the satellite
> > > > >>>>>> that
> > > > >>>>>> we are used to, thus
> > the
> > > > excitement is definitely worth it's while -
> > > > >>>>>> but it
> > > > >>>>>> will be much more
> > exciting once
> > > > the true end-to-end services of
> > > > >>>>>> either
> > > > >>>>>> SEACOM, TEAMS or others
> > lights
> > > > up.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Regards,
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Brian
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at
> > 10:58 AM,
> > > > Maliti, Tom<tmaliti at ap.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>> Dear Walu,
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> It is almost a week
> > since
> > > > SEACOM went live and there does not seem
> > > > >>>>>>> to
> > > > >>>>>>> be that much
> > excitement or
> > > > response despite the many discussions
> > > > >>>>>>> that
> > > > >>>>>>> have been dedicated
> > to
> > > > broadband on this list.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Your question at the
> > end of
> > > > your email is still valid. Or is it
> > > > >>>>>>> possible our varied
> > service
> > > > providers were not prepared,
> > > > >>>>>>> irrespective
> > > > >>>>>>> of what they say in
> > public? It
> > > > seems, however, one service provider
> > > > >>>>>>> was ready:
> > Safaricom. Their
> > > > service has been on fiber since
> > > > >>>>>>> Saturday
> > > > >>>>>>> and anyone who is on
> > their
> > > > data services has been enjoying the high
> > > > >>>>>>> speeds that have
> > been talked
> > > > about for years.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Does anyone know of
> > any
> > > > others?
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Tom Maliti
> > > > >>>>>>> Correspondent
> > > > >>>>>>> East Africa Bureau
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Direct line: +254 20
> > 285 9109
> > > > >>>>>>> Office line: +254 20
> > 285 9000
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > >
> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â
> > > > +254 734 555 252
> > > > >>>>>>> Fax: +254 20
> > 2724726
> > > > >>>>>>> Mobile +254 733 641
> > 984
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > >>>>>>> From:
> > > > kictanet-bounces+tmaliti=ap.org at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > [mailto:kictanet-bounces+tmaliti <kictanet-bounces%2Btmaliti>=ap.org
> @lists.kictanet.or.ke]
> > > > On
> > > > >>>>>>> Behalf Of Walubengo
> > J
> > > > >>>>>>> Sent: 23 July 2009
> > 17:18
> > > > >>>>>>> To: Maliti, Tom
> > > > >>>>>>> Cc: skunk; ke-users;
> > KICTAnet
> > > > ICT Policy Discussions
> > > > >>>>>>> Subject: [kictanet]
> > Seacom
> > > > goes live?
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> http://twitter.com/SeacomLive/
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Jst reading from
> > Twitter that
> > > > Seacom has gone live. Not sure if its
> > > > >>>>>>> only in .TZ
> > though. Any
> > > > impact in .KE? Ama we are still waiting
> > > > >>>>>>> for
> > > > >>>>>>> our very own TEAMS?
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Tunajivunia?
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> walu.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> The information
> > contained in
> > > > this communication is intended for the
> > > > >>>>>>> use of the
> > designated
> > > > recipients named above. If the reader of this
> > > > >>>>>>> communication is not
> > the
> > > > intended recipient, you are hereby
> > > > >>>>>>> notified
> > > > >>>>>>> that you have
> > received this
> > > > communication in error, and that any
> > > > >>>>>>> review,
> > dissemination,
> > > > distribution or copying of this
> > > > >>>>>>> communication
> > > > >>>>>>> is strictly
> > prohibited. If you
> > > > have received this communication in
> > > > >>>>>>> error, please notify
> > The
> > > > Associated Press immediately by telephone
> > > > >>>>>>> at
> > > > >>>>>>> +44-20-7482-7400 and
> > delete
> > > > this e-mail. Thank you.
> > > > >>>>>>> [IP_UK_DISC]
> > > > >>>>>>> msk
> > > > dccc60c6d2c3a6438f0cf467d9a4938
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > >>>>>>> kictanet mailing
> > list
> > > > >>>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
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> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> --
> > > > >>>>> Brian Munyao Longwe
> > > > >>>>> e-mail: blongwe at gmail.com
> > > > >>>>> cell: Â + 254 722 518 744
> > > > >>>>> blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com
> > > > >>>>> meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
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> > > > >>>>> Warigia Bowman
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> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> --
> > > > >>>> Brian Munyao Longwe
> > > > >>>> e-mail: blongwe at gmail.com
> > > > >>>> cell: + 254 722 518 744
> > > > >>>> blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com
> > > > >>>> meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
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> > ____________________________________________________________
> > > > >>> FREE 3D MARINE AQUARIUM SCREENSAVER
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Google Kenya
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