[kictanet] BPO Industry Review (was Re: Stakeholder Queries:)
Liko Agosta
likoa at verviant.com
Sat Sep 6 08:55:00 EAT 2008
Sam
So when are you setting up ?
Thanks
Liko Agosta, CEO
Verviant Consulting Services.
www.verviant.com
Phone : 1-919-341-1820
Fax : 1-978-268-8403
Toll Free: 1-866-551-4935
Pager: 9193891551 at txt.att.net
-----Original Message-----
From: kictanet-bounces+likoa=verviant.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+likoa=verviant.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Sam regee
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 5:42 AM
To: Liko Agosta
Cc: kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
Subject: Re: [kictanet] BPO Industry Review (was Re: Stakeholder Queries:)
Justin,
I am disappointed by your responses. The fact that some investor went and spent a lot of money of fitting out their operations does not make them developed, just well equipped. The fact that they closed shop as soon as the bandwidth closed (in the case of your friend - elaborates the issue of concern)
We need to think sequentially for a moment. Everytime you hear the ICT Board mentioned here one can clearly see that the perspective being expressed - sometimes between the lines - is what we want for them to pay for us (BPO practitioners) etc. When I listen to people talking about what it takes to set up a BPO facility, you'd think that it will cost a mere couple of hundred thousand shillings. Certainly I have received a consultant's report that suggested that it will take less than kshs. 1 million to set up. No mention of the marketing function and costs.
It is shallow to suggest that Kenya is competing with Phillipines and India but the corresponding organisations cannot be compared. We are kidding ourselves if we do not expect of the society and the board to operate at the same strategic levels as India,Phillipines, South African etc organisations.
I get the sense that people just have not internalised what it would mean to take a significant slice of
the global market - otherwise, we really should be talking mathematics - "it will take (for example) 100,000 seats operating at full capacity for us to be managing 1% of the global BPO revenues.." Our story at that point stops being - as Peres says - merely a "strong revenue generator", that will result in "job creation". Our language would morph from "we couldn't go because of funding..." and other general platitudes.
Competing with the rest of the world requires an uncompromising expectation andunderstanding of what it takes to win and therefore the prize is not for amount of work but results...
I don't know - does anyone feel me?
---------------
Dr. Sam Regeee
ZBI
I organised my thoughts if you will notice around the subject of business - not just having the office with computers and bandwidth. In my calculations so far, bandwidth only seems to take 16-19% of the business costs and this is calibrated depending on usage (whether work is there or not). over 30% is HR costs. At least 35% is marketing costs. In this sort of thinking one is able to calcuate just what one must invest and over what period of time.
On 09/04/2008 "Justin Mburu" <jt.alliance at gmail.com> wrote:
>Good day All,
>
> This interesting subject on BPO rather caught my attention intensely I must
> say :-)
>
> I have just come from the UK a couple of months back and look to setup a
> contact center locally, now that the industry has begun to pick up amid the
> hiccups here and there.
>
> And to pick up on some of Sam Regee's points as outlined below, i will also
> tend to share my findings as well: (My comments are in blue font in
> commenting to Sam Regee's comments)
>
> > 1. That much of the BPO sector has been set up in an uncompetitive
> framework
> > that cannot be sustained. Businesses (for this is what they are) have been
> > set up while factoring heavily the potential government subsidy. --- I
> have a friend of mine who set up here on Kenya long before the subsidy was
> in place, and so therefore you cannot base your claims on a few vendors who
> set up in a rush for the subsidy only to close shop when they realized that
> the bandwidth wasnt forth-coming at all.Meaning they got in the industry on
> a wrong foot. There are several which are still operating and have been on
> since even before the subsidy issue.
>
> > 2. That the private sector players in the industry are too dependent on
> > government (through the Kenya ICT Board) for marketing and business.
> > Essentially there is too much government in the business of outsourcing
> here
> > - not from a legislative perspective but from an operational perspective
>
> > This is clearly untenable because, having glanced at the Kenya ICT Board's
> > strategy as articulated by its officials severally, their mandate goes
> much
> > further than BPO - as at the time they were set up, that is. For sure, I
> > perceive them as a marketing organization but marketing Kenya's overall
> ICT
> > rather than just IT enabled services.---- Sam if you look clearly, you
> will realise private sector are not that dependent on government/ICT Board
> at all. Have you even walked around the existing centers and seen how
> developed most are? Did government/ICT Board help them get to the levels of
> development they are in? I think not. If I were you I would visit existing
> centers first before I leap to claiming the private sector are
> dependant on government/ICT
> Board. Or maybe you can shade some light for us on what exactly you mean by
> ' too dependent' :-) and also it is obvious government has to be involved
> because if you have been keen on what has been going on since you arrived in
> the country, you will realise BPO is one of the 5 pillars of the set Vision
> 2030 which is a government initiative. So whether we like it or not,
> government has a major role to play in ensuring this industry picks up here
> in Kenya.
>
> On the note of ICT Board's role in marketing, if you have been keen on all
> organised BPO/Contact Center events, ICT Board itself has always put itself
> on the frontline in this events, meaning they themselves are the ones
> focusing too much on the BPO/Contact center industry and putting so much
> energy on it, (which is a good thing anyway) , while there are so many ICT
> things to market on. So I agree with you that ICT Board should focus on
> marketing Kenya's overall ICT rather than just IT enabled services.
>
> > 3. That the private sector umbrella body, the Kenya BPO Society - and I
> have
> > read the discussions by the chairman of the Society here - seems to not
> > articulate well its programmes (at least to my understanding) what they
> are
> > about overally.---- From my point, the chairman of the society clearly
> laid out who they are overally, and what they do. And for such a young
> society, I say kudos to where they are now. You can visit their offices and
> I am sure they will be more than glad to tell you on a one-on-one basis what
> they are all about. For all I know, they are doing a great job, and I wish
> them all the best as they continue to drwa the industry to high depths. Just
> to give you a bit of what they have achieved so far, so that you can
> apprecaiate they are on the right direction, they recently launched the
> Standards & Ethics guidelines for the industry, which I say is a very
> brilliant step, considering how young the industry is here in Kenya. So it
> is with such laid guidelines that the BPO industry in Kenya will be able to
> be laid in a firm solid foundation that is based on international operation
> standards in BPO & Contact Center industy.
>
>
> > If I were to turn to the BPO Services Association Unlimited (
> > http://www.bsau.org/), I can see a marketing campaign and a marketing
> > position that they have taken. This came from the outsourcing private
> sector
> > - and some of their programmes have support from the Phillipino government
> > but the drive is from the private sector. If I look at NASSCOM, I can see
> > that they are private sector led and their main purpose is the promotion
> of
> > India as the leader in BPO services globally. In fact, they start by
> saying
> > that they are a global organization - which is a position of strength.
>
> > Has the BPO Society attained such a level of pedigree - which starts in
> the
> > mind with strategy - that would enable them to lead the sector to
> > prosperity? I have not heard it in their discussions at the few events
> where
> > I have had a chance to listen to the Chairperson and other officials of
> the
> > society.-----My friend, it seems you have really been behind the screens
> with the society updates. Next week they will be launching their 3 year
> marketing strategy plan. This is indeed another brilliant step they will
> have taken as young an association as they are.From one of their forums, I
> remember them mentioning that one of their strategies is to join hands with
> several associations globally. This shows great initiative in making sure
> the industry gets recognized globaly through such relations. It rather
> unfortunate that the society did not get to participate at the EXPO ZARAGORA
> 2008 Spain event which from my research had many international associations
> attending the event such that it could have been an ideal place to network
> and form relations with the other international associations. I hear the
> society was to participate but they got a critical hiccup at the last minute
> (maybe the society chairman can fill us in on what exactly happened for them
> to miss such a crucial beneficial event). But I hear the CEO of ICT Board Mr
> Paul Kukubo and a local call center director,attended the event, maybe they
> can shed more light for us (if they are in the mailing list) what exactly
> went on in the Spain event and if they managed to secure any opportunities
> from the event. It is at such events that the society looks to the
> government support in ensuring they and also some industry players get to
> attend such events as Kenyan political figures were also present at the
> event as well as government officials. Such is where much lobbying can take
> place and the society can lobby their way to getting in beneficial relations
> with other international associations as well us get prospective clienst for
> industry players at some point.
>
> Hey and dont you think you are being too harsh on the society by comparing
> them with giant international BPO industries which definately have giant
> associations as well? I say give some credit to the Kenya BPO Society this
> far they have come. So instead of comparing them with big giants, look more
> into working with them into becoming a giant as well.
>
> Kenya BPO society is also private sector led, its only that the ICT Board
> takes much of the show (and we are not saying this is a bad thing) hence I
> think this ends up confusing industry players, and it always ends up looking
> like the industry is government driven, if you get my point. The government
> should be there just to support maybe in terms of funding society-organsised
> BPO events, which are beneficial to all industry players for instance in
> marketing the country as a BPO destination, etc. But what the government/ICT
> Board should not do is brand all BPO related shows to be government/ICT
> Board shows, as this is what makes it all look like the industry in Kenya is
> government/ICT Board-driven and govt/ICT Board dependant, in stead of being
> private sector-driven.
>
>
> > c) Has the BPO Society (or the Kenya ICT Board since they are so much in
> the
> > thick of things here) done a comprehensive marketing plan for the sector -
> > or do they each have one? ---- For all I know, I hear the Kenya BPO
> society has a marketing strategy which they are launching some time next
> week. Maybe you should find our more details about it from the society
> itself, so that you can be able to attend and maybe you will get your
> answers there. I will be attending, and would really like to meet you there
> Sam Regee so that we can chit chat about this industry in a more
> comprehensive way. What do you say? I sure hope to see you there. I never
> miss society events as they give me hope that there is a light at the end of
> the tunnel in this BPO industry here in Kenya.
>
> As for ICT Board, I have not heard of any so far.
>
>
>
> I hope this has helped you gauge the phase we are at now in this new
> industry in Kenya.
>
> On a lighter note, what does the ZBI from you signature stand for?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Justin
>
>
>
>
> >Hi all,
> >
> > As a recently returned (to Kenya) academic and entrepreneur, with an
> > interest in the BPO sector - explicitly: I want to set up a legal
> > transcription facility here. As I go about my research, I have been to see
> > one or two operations, while I was in my previous engagement a few months
> > ago and I am saddened to note that quite a number of the BPO operations
> that
> > were in existence a few months ago are no more.
> >
> > having spoken to a few people in the industry, I am led to form some
> > preliminary conclusions (which I hope to validate here): I apologise in
> > advance, if I offend, but it is in a positive spirit, that I advance these
> > thoughts here.
> >
> > 1. That much of the BPO sector has been set up in an uncompetitive
> framework
> > that cannot be sustained. Businesses (for this is what they are) have been
> > set up while factoring heavily the potential government subsidy.
> >
> > 2. That the private sector players in the industry are too dependent on
> > government (through the Kenya ICT Board) for marketing and business.
> > Essentially there is too much government in the business of outsourcing
> here
> > - not from a legislative perspective but from an operational perspective.
> >
> > This is clearly untenable because, having glanced at the Kenya ICT Board's
> > strategy as articulated by its officials severally, their mandate goes
> much
> > further than BPO - as at the time they were set up, that is. For sure, I
> > perceive them as a marketing organization but marketing Kenya's overall
> ICT
> > rather than just IT enabled services.
> >
> > 3. That the private sector umbrella body, the Kenya BPO Society - and I
> have
> > read the discussions by the chairman of the Society here - seems to not
> > articulate well its programmes (at least to my understanding) what they
> are
> > about overally.
> >
> > If I were to turn to the BPO Services Association Unlimited (
> > http://www.bsau.org/), I can see a marketing campaign and a marketing
> > position that they have taken. This came from the outsourcing private
> sector
> > - and some of their programmes have support from the Phillipino government
> > but the drive is from the private sector. If I look at NASSCOM, I can see
> > that they are private sector led and their main purpose is the promotion
> of
> > India as the leader in BPO services globally. In fact, they start by
> saying
> > that they are a global organization - which is a position of strength.
> >
> > Has the BPO Society attained such a level of pedigree - which starts in
> the
> > mind with strategy - that would enable them to lead the sector to
> > prosperity? I have not heard it in their discussions at the few events
> where
> > I have had a chance to listen to the Chairperson and other officials of
> the
> > society.
> >
> > These are preliminary thoughts that I have developed and I would be happy
> to
> > see them examined and torn apart and validated as the case may be.
> >
> > meanwhile, some pointed questions:
> >
> > a) Is there any science to a slice of the $310 Billion opportunity
> > presented by the society? This is to ask, how many seats would we need to
> > have to have a 1% slice of the opportunity?
> >
> > b) How many BPO operators are there now - and more pointedly - how many
> are
> > actually functional?
> >
> > c) Has the BPO Society (or the Kenya ICT Board since they are so much in
> the
> > thick of things here) done a comprehensive marketing plan for the sector -
> > or do they each have one?
> >
> > This is a very good discussion.
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------
> > Dr. Sam Regee
> > ZBI
> >
> >
> >
> > null
> >
> > On 09/04/2008 "Brian Longwe" <blongwe at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >This message bounced back yesterday - seems the listserver is having some
> > > constipation....
> > >
> > > Brian
> > >
> > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > From: Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe at gmail.com>
> > > Date: Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 5:35 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [kictanet] BPO Industry Review (was Re: Stakeholder
> Queries:)
> > > To: Liko Agosta <likoa at verviant.com>
> > > Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Liko,
> > >
> > > Sorry, I was driving with one hand n texting with the other
> (usinistaki).
> > > Thus the v brief response. Pls so feel free to share your views with the
> > > rest of the list, we NEED to hear from practitioners! As mentioned, this
> > > discussion should help she'd some light on this relatively 'new'
> industry
> > so
> > > that inner and outer stakeholders can develop a better understanding.
> > >
> > > It would also be great to hear from the ICT Board (hint hint) - although
> > > they're probably a bit gun-shy right because they don't want to be
> flamed.
> > >
> > > On your point regarding the CEO being 'seconded' to the USA for an
> > extended
> > > period... Hmmm... Maybe not... BUT.... Your suggestion about high level
> > > representation makes sense. How about a full fledged office, maybe with
> > > Dep.CEO ranking.... Dunno...just thoughts....
> > >
> > > Nway, please do share ur thoughts, ideas, suggestions, challenges,
> > > headaches, the lot!
> > >
> > > Brian
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > > On 03 Sep 2008, at 4:37 PM, "Liko Agosta" <likoa at verviant.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Brian
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't mind taking a call from you to explain what has happened and
> where
> > > Kenya is and some ideas about the best way forward
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Obviously, I will be looking at life from a providers point of view …
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Also, which organization do you represent ?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Liko Agosta, CEO
> > >
> > > Verviant Consulting Services.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > <http://www.verviant.com>www.verviant.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Phone : 1-919-341-1820
> > >
> > > Fax : 1-978-268-8403
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Toll Free: 1-866-551-4935
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Pager: 9193891551 at txt.att.net
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *From:* kictanet-bounces+likoa=verviant.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke [
> > > mailto:kictanet-bounces <kictanet-bounces>+likoa=
> > > verviant.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *Gilda Odera
> > > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 03, 2008 4:16 AM
> > > *To:* Liko Agosta
> > > *Cc:* 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'
> > > *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] BPO Industry Review (was Re: Stakeholder
> > Queries:)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Brian,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If you recall, initially the ICT Board was created mainly " to market
> > Kenya
> > > as an outsourcing destination". I think many other things were lumped
> onto
> > > the board without putting structures in place ie. personnel and budgets.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On another note, I am surprised you are still asking about the role and
> > > obligations of KBPOCCS after the lengthy emails.
> > >
> > > Maybe you should re-read them?:)
> > >
> > > It is true there is more shouting from BPO players in KICTANET,media,
> > > everwhere..... maybe the others are content or indifferent....
> > >
> > > That should not stop the BPO Sector from airing views or making demands.
> > > Remember your ISP days? You and some others in the ISP arena were very
> > > vocal and that impacted on various other sub-sectors who benefited.
> > >
> > > I say, if there is an issue that needs attention, it needs to be known.
> I
> > > would suggest that the other sub-sectors also start shouting out their
> > > issues that they want to see being resolved. We are all inter-connected
> so
> > > any gains will benefit all others.
> > >
> > > Can someone from the ICT Board please say something? Is it true you are
> > > being blamed by others for focusing too much on BPO and if so, how are
> you
> > > balancing the act?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Best
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Gilda
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > *From:* Brian Munyao Longwe <brian at caret.net>
> > >
> > > *To:* Gilda Odera <godera at skyweb.co.ke>
> > >
> > > *Cc:* 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions' <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> > >
> > > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 03, 2008 8:55 AM
> > >
> > > *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] BPO Industry Review (was Re: Stakeholder
> > Queries:)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Great input Lika. Seems like you have a real handle on this industry. If
> I
> > > may recap:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Clients (I presume these are international) gauge a BPO provider based
> on
> > > four main criteria:
> > >
> > > a) Capability: This speaks to an area of skillset matching across
> industry
> > -
> > > do we have enough "intel" on the necessary skillsets so that if someone
> > > wants to outsource their transcription of recorded audio court records
> or
> > > psychiatric interviews - the BPO operators personnel understand enough
> > about
> > > the subject matter to capture the relevant language (don't know if this
> is
> > a
> > > good example but it's what comes to mind)
> > >
> > > b) Cost-cutting potential: If the customer is the one asking this
> > question,
> > > then it seems that they expect the BPO operator to have alread studied
> to
> > > some extent their business, at` least enough to understand ways in which
> > > savings can be accrued.
> > >
> > > c) Referenceable clients
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If the CEO of the ICT board calls the CEO of ATT he is more likely to
> get
> > a
> > > meeting and business as opposed to the CEO of Kamau Wanjala Outsourcers
> …
> > > again, I don't know what the ICT Board has been doing (am sure they have
> > > done a lot … may be like top secret strategy stuff) but in my opinion
> the
> > > CEO of that board should be based in US for like 90% of the year .. talk
> > to
> > > clients, be a rain maker, schmooze, play golf and open doors.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > This belies the assumptions and perceptions on which I initiated this
> > > thread. For some reason there seems to be some kind of implicit
> > expectation
> > > that the ICT Board exists to servie the BPO industry - why is that?
> > Kenya's
> > > ICT is definitely much more than just BPO (as Gilda clearly pointed
> out).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On this list we have heard a lot of complaints (largely from BPO
> players)
> > > about the ICT Board's lack of support for the BPO industry, while on the
> > > other hand other sector players saying that the Board pays too much
> > > attention to BPO. What should the role and obligation of the board in
> the
> > > BPO sector be? Could it be strategic?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > What can we say is the role of the BPO/CC Society and it's obligations
> > (both
> > > to internal and external stakeholders) in the larger scheme of things?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Brian
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sep 2, 2008, at 11:07 PM, Liko Agosta wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > All that you guys are talking about is good ... but when I talk to
> > clients
> > > they ask the following questions
> > >
> > > a. Can you do the job ?
> > >
> > > b. How much will you save me ?
> > >
> > > c. Have you done this for anyone else (especially in my sector/country)
> ?
> > >
> > > d. Can I talk to references
> > >
> > > 1-3 page executive proposals work better than 50 page proposals. C level
> > > execs never go past page 3 of proposals. They really don't care where I
> am
> > > working from
> > >
> > > Only 1 client asked about Kenyan copyright laws .. and our lawyer gave a
> > > sufficient answer... we got the work and have saved them over USD
> 500,000
> > >
> > > About Safaricom and Land Registry and all this projects that keep
> breaking
> > > our hearts and hurting our feelings :) ....
> > >
> > > Let's assume Safaricom is has 400 customer services reps .... would
> they
> > be
> > > an ideal client for any BPO in Kenya ? if they pay their employees 50k
> per
> > > month .. a BPO would have to charge them 100k per month FOR THE SAME
> > > EMPLOYEE across town.
> > >
> > > Now, maybe I have all this wrong but there are more than 10000 companies
> > in
> > > the developed world with over 400 "clerical employees" who they pay an
> > > average of 3000$ per month. If you went and targeted these companies
> ....
> > > you can get 100k per employee, pay the employee 50k etc and the client
> > will
> > > be happy, you happy, employee happy ...
> > >
> > > Many local clients take 60-90 days to pay invoices. In US for example,
> > > depending on state, it's illegal to hold a vendors payment when work has
> > > been done ….
> > >
> > > My point ... BPOs, Software Providers have to be willing to ignore the
> > local
> > > market and focus on external sources of business. The local market is
> too
> > > small, too complicated and the waters are very muddied.
> > >
> > > About brokers and "consultants". I have been approached by quite a few.
> > > People who claim to have connections, venture capital and all that good
> > > stuff. I learnt early to say no… early. They are a waste of time in my
> > book
> > >
> > > Kenya will not become a better outsourcing destination if we come up
> with
> > > ethics guidelines, an act of parliament and the like … now, those will
> not
> > > hurt … but we will benefit more if the ICT Board flanked companies when
> > they
> > > are pitching their services to potential clients.
> > >
> > > By flanking I mean fly to meet the client, do research on financials,
> help
> > > with financing - have a conference in US and invite 100 potential and
> > vetted
> > > clients to meet Kenyan providers …. This works like a charm here .. (if
> > GOK
> > > spends 500k on tickets and 30 Kenyans are hired making 50k … - ROI is
> > there
> > > pretty fast)
> > >
> > > If the CEO of the ICT board calls the CEO of ATT he is more likely to
> get
> > a
> > > meeting and business as opposed to the CEO of Kamau Wanjala Outsourcers
> …
> > > again, I don't know what the ICT Board has been doing (am sure they have
> > > done a lot … may be like top secret strategy stuff) but in my opinion
> the
> > > CEO of that board should be based in US for like 90% of the year .. talk
> > to
> > > clients, be a rain maker, schmooze, play golf and open doors.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I have always felt that the ICT Board should headhunt and hire people
> with
> > > C level experience from either US or UK … people from the bigger
> > consulting
> > > companies Bain, BCG, Accenture, Avanade, EDS … these guys work on
> million
> > > dollar outsourcing deals and have very good contacts. They also would be
> > > able to come up with a strategy immediately
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > As Gilda has shown, the harvest is plentiful …
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Liko Agosta, CEO
> > >
> > > Verviant Consulting Services.
> > >
> > > www.verviant.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Phone : 1-919-341-1820
> > >
> > > Fax : 1-978-268-8403
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Toll Free: 1-866-551-4935
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Pager: <9193891551 at txt.att.net>9193891551 at txt.att.net
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > >
> > > From: kictanet-bounces+likoa= <verviant.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> > > verviant.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> > > [<kictanet-bounces+likoa=verviant.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> > > mailto:kictanet-bounces <kictanet-bounces>+likoa=
> > > verviant.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of David Otwoma
> > >
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 11:45 AM
> > >
> > > To: Liko Agosta
> > >
> > > Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: [kictanet] BPO Industry Review (was Re: Stakeholder
> Queries:)
> > >
> > > Dear Brian,
> > >
> > > Looks like you are fully re-charged after last weeks retreat in
> > >
> > > Naivasha on Strategy. Tell us some more of what is not confidential.
> > >
> > > Otherwise my wish is to take the baton from my able Chair and respond
> > >
> > > on bullet 3 in your beautiful rejoinder.
> > >
> > > As Chair of the Standards and Ethics Committee of the KBPOCCS we (are
> > >
> > > 7 members) did come up with Standards and Ethics Guidelines which took
> > >
> > > over eight (8) months to prepare and on June 22nd 2008 the Permanent
> > >
> > > Secretary of the Ministry of Information & Communication led us
> > >
> > > (KBPOCCS members, KICTB who graciously sponsored the event at KICC,
> > >
> > > CCK, CSK, members of the public who have an interest in BPO&CC pie)
> > >
> > > into adopting the S&E Guidelines.
> > >
> > > The next milestone we wish to aim for is have the Guidelines upgraded
> > >
> > > into a Regulation or an Act of Parliament. Either achievement would be
> > >
> > > binding to all and sundry who operate in the BPO&CC world. A world
> > >
> > > which is moving the advancement of the human race from industrial age
> > >
> > > into information age. Just imagine Kenya having a binding law on
> > >
> > > Standards and a slice of the USD$310 Billion industry. It would make
> > >
> > > our young people, because they are the future force in the knowledge
> > >
> > > economy we keep talking about.
> > >
> > > What are the next immediate steps. Cozy relations between the Private
> > >
> > > Public Partnership.
> > >
> > > Another bullet I will let you peer into what you have been seeing but
> > >
> > > refuse to acknowledge is bullet No. 7. It was KPLC who introduced me
> > >
> > > to the world of BPO&CC when they sought S. African expertise to deal
> > >
> > > with their in-house contact centre better known to the general public
> > >
> > > (read Brian et al) as Customer Care Centre or Customer Relations
> > >
> > > Management. Ever wondered when power disappears at any time of the day
> > >
> > > or night where that 'frustrated' call 'agrily demanding 'where is
> > >
> > > power?' goes? Yes to a call center owned and managed
> > >
> > > by KPLC. KPLC as of 2005 when we engaged had a call centre running
> > >
> > > 24/7 with 210 seats in Nairobi alone. Telecom has a bigger one.
> > >
> > > Safaricom is soon overtaking Telecom with that news flash. Water
> > >
> > > companies have. So do all the banks, insurance, etc. companies both
> > >
> > > private and public owned.
> > >
> > > Since we have very able Chairs for Training, Marketing etc. I will
> > >
> > > stop there and go for my dear bottle.....tusker.
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 6:12 PM, Brian Munyao Longwe < <brian at caret.net>
> > > brian at caret.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Excellent Feedback Gilda,
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > So I see a few very clear issues arising out of your response:
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > 1) There is a distinct global opportunity - but that calls for
> > >
> > > > appropriate positioning as well as preparation on Kenya's part
> > >
> > > > 2) Capacity issues need to be addressed - knowledge transfer could be
> > >
> > > > on way - but that implies finding someone who is willing to impart
> > >
> > > > the knowledge - do they come from inside or outside?
> > >
> > > > 3) Global standards must be recognised and adhered to in order to
> > >
> > > > ensure entry and competitiveness - what are these standards are they
> > >
> > > > clearly documented somewhere?
> > >
> > > > 4) Many local operations have not had the exposure necessary/needed
> > >
> > > > to develop expertise/efficiency/etc - what kind of interventions can
> > >
> > > > facilitate this?
> > >
> > > > 5) BPO is not the "Holy Grail" as some perceive it, but one piece of
> > >
> > > > the ICT puzzle that needs to be solved in order to help Kenya attain
> > >
> > > > it's ambitious goal of becoming a global ICT hub
> > >
> > > > 6) There is a distinct and precise training need for personnel to
> > >
> > > > supply the Kenyan BPO industry with "bodies to put on seats",
> > >
> > > > presumably to allow the BPO industry to harness and deliver against
> > >
> > > > the global opportunity - what interventions (planned or otherwise)
> > >
> > > > are we taking to meet this target? How accurate is this estimate and
> > >
> > > > can it be verified?
> > >
> > > > 7) Local Players - your website (must say it's very cute) lists quite
> > >
> > > > a number (28) - but I must say that I'm quite surprised at some of
> > >
> > > > the names I find there - didn't know KPLC was offering BPO services
> > >
> > > > for example - but maybe I'm mistaken in my assumptions....
> > >
> > > > 8) Local opportunities: seems many/most local companies are looking
> > >
> > > > outside to outsource certain functions or simply "self-provisioning"
> > >
> > > > - why would Safaricom claim that it's too expensive to outsource
> > >
> > > > locally based on the price estimates that they got from industry. Is
> > >
> > > > there a need for our local BPO industry to do some kind of soul
> > >
> > > > searching and find ways of making themselves/their services more
> > >
> > > > palatable to local companies?
> > >
> > > > 9) The industry for some reason seems to have attracted brokers - who
> > >
> > > > are watering down/diluting the true opportunity - what kind of
> > >
> > > > interventions do we need to "eliminate the middleman" - a seemingly
> > >
> > > > consistent argument in many sector e.g. tea, coffee, flowers, tourism
> > >
> > > > etc.....
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Brian
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > On Sep 2, 2008, at 4:10 PM, Gilda Odera wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >> Hi Brian,
> > >
> > > >>
> > >
> > > >> You have raised very pertinent questions in your email below.
> > >
> > > >> Let me answer your queries.
> > >
> > > >>
> > >
> > > >> Firstly, it is true that BPO has taken centre stage in many
> > >
> > > >> discussions surrounding Kenya's ICT development and growth and it
> > >
> > > >> is a good thing, here's why:
> > >
> > > >> We are looking at a USD$310 Billion industry by next year, up for
> > >
> > > >> grabs for any destinations that get it right. India is currently
> > >
> > > >> taking up 45% of the total share and China and Phillipines are
> > >
> > > >> steadily growing. And what's more, it can only grow, with the fuel
> > >
> > > >> prices soaring each year,what choice is there for the companies out
> > >
> > > >> there to look for more affordable means of operating.
> > >
> > > >> It is a fact that the western countries are looking for new
> > >
> > > >> alternative destinations to Asia so they do not put all their eggs
> > >
> > > >> in one basket, not with the terrorism threats all over. Where else
> > >
> > > >> but Africa. Why would Kenya not put its house in order to take a
> > >
> > > >> piece of this pie?
> > >
> > > >>
> > >
> > > >> Now in regard to your comment on BPO taking centre stage in ICT
> > >
> > > >> development, I would say one thing we need in this country is
> > >
> > > >> opportunity for knowledge transfer done right here. We may produce
> > >
> > > >> more technology oriented personnel but as long as we operate within
> > >
> > > >> the Kenyan way of operating, we are not developing our personnel to
> > >
> > > >> the global standards we want them to attain.Not because we are not
> > >
> > > >> capable, but because many operations have not had the exposure.
> > >
> > > >>
> > >
> > > >> I would beg to differ (and government can speak for itself) that we
> > >
> > > >> are putting all eggs in one basket. BPO is but one sub-sector in
> > >
> > > >> the ICT arena. Many other sub-sectors within the sector are quite
> > >
> > > >> active. Software development is coming up and I keep reading
> > >
> > > >> debates on KICTANET. There is an interest.
> > >
> > > >> Content development is also being encouraged. The
> > >
> > > >> telecommunications sector is busy preparing for real competition
> > >
> > > >> and we the consumers can't wait for the benefits, they will have to
> > >
> > > >> have great value adds and affordable pricing.
> > >
> > > >>
> > >
> > > >> What steps are we taking to enhance BPO? I leave the ICT Board to
> > >
> > > >> answer that although as Kenya BPO and Contact Centre Society, we
> > >
> > > >> have presented to them the need to train not less than 10,000 per
> > >
> > > >> year, specifically for this sector. Frost and Sullivan who are
> > >
> > > >> normally 90% accurate in their new destination analysis says Kenya
> > >
> > > >> will by 2012 have a BPO sector employing about 120,000 direct jobs
> > >
> > > >> ( you can add indirect by another 3-5) as long as the fibre optic
> > >
> > > >> infrastructure is in place on time next year and marketing of the
> > >
> > > >> country takes root.
> > >
> > > >>
> > >
> > > >> Who are the players? Our members are on our website
> > >
> > > >> <http://www.kenyabposociety.or.ke>www.kenyabposociety.or.ke . There
> are
> > > ofcourse others quietly
> > >
> > > >> operating.
> > >
> > > >> What are the local opportunities- Our biggest challenge is getting
> > >
> > > >> local companies to outsource though some have started. We expected
> > >
> > > >> the giants like Safaricom to play a role even if it is a CSR role
> > >
> > > >> to demonstrate a level of confidence in the local companies. This
> > >
> > > >> is possible, other companies work with those they outsource to for
> > >
> > > >> a given period, and leave them running efficiently as they require.
> > >
> > > >> All is not lost. Some local companies are outsourcing BPO work and
> > >
> > > >> I wish to challenge Safaricom to outsource part of their BPO work
> > >
> > > >> if they say local outsourcing is not competitive.
> > >
> > > >>
> > >
> > > >> The international opportunities are the ones that I have mentioned
> > >
> > > >> are worth $310 Billion. The ball is in our court as Kenyans to
> > >
> > > >> market Kenya as a destination if we are to make any gains. We need
> > >
> > > >> to attract direct clients and not the current brokers who are
> > >
> > > >> exploiting the existing centres,much as their contracts are keeping
> > >
> > > >> some of the centres going.
> > >
> > > >> I hope I have addressed your queries.
> > >
> > > >>
> > >
> > > >>
> > >
> > > >>
> > >
> > > >>
> > >
> > > >> Gilda Odera
> > >
> > > >> Chair, Kenya BPO and Contact Centre Society
> > >
> > > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Munyao Longwe"
> > >
> > > >> < <brian at caret.net>brian at caret.net>
> > >
> > > >> To: "Gilda Odera" < <godera at skyweb.co.ke>godera at skyweb.co.ke>
> > >
> > > >> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" < <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> > > kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> > >
> > > >> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 11:12 AM
> > >
> > > >> Subject: [kictanet] BPO Industry Review (was Re: Stakeholder
> Queries:)
> > >
> > > >>
> > >
> > > >>
> > >
> > > >> Hi All,
> > >
> > > >>
> > >
> > > >> It is interesting that BPO seems to have taken a centre stage in many
> > >
> > > >> discussions surrounding Kenya's ICT development and growth. While I
> > >
> > > >> do believe that BPO/KPO has huge potential. I am a bit skeptical
> > >
> > > >> about this "silver bullet" approach which might be akin to putting
> > >
> > > >> all our eggs in one basket.
> > >
> > > >>
> > >
> > > >> What if the basket gets stepped on by some giant like Malaysia, South
> > >
> > > >> Africa or others?
> > >
> > > >>
> > >
> > > >> I would be very interested in taking a much closer look at the BPO
> > >
> > > >> industry in Kenya. Who are the players? What are the opportunities?
> > >
> > > >> What is the potential for growth? What steps are we taking to
> enhance/
> > >
> > > >> develop/increase capacity in BPO/KPO? What kind(s) of investments are
> > >
> > > >> required to make this industry boom? What are the local opportunities
> > >
> > > >> for BPO/KPO? What are the international opportunities for BPO/KPO?
> > >
> > > >>
> > >
> > > >> I think that answers to these and many other questions will help
> > >
> > > >> other like me who are a bit unclear in their minds as to how BPO will
> > >
> > > >> be our saviour have a clearer view. It might also just show that BPO
> > >
> > > >> is a contributing factor and not necessarily the holy grail that at
> > >
> > > >> the moment seems to be the general perception.
> > >
> > > >>
> > >
> > > >> Regards,
> > >
> > > >>
> > >
> > > >> Brian
> > >
> > > >>
> > >
> > > >>
> > >
> > > >>
> > >
> > > >> On Sep 2, 2008, at 8:25 AM, David Otwoma wrote:
> > >
> > > >>
> > >
> > > >>> Dear All,
> > >
> > > >>>
> > >
> > > >>> "Comments from BPO operators and of course other Stakeholders"
> > >
> > > >>> please.
> > >
> > > >>>
> > >
> > > >>> Safaricom in Sh1bn customer care plan (see Daily Nation page 28)
> > >
> > > >>>
> > >
> > > >>> -------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > >>>
> > >
> > > >>> Many companies have been turning to BPOs as the financial benefits
> of
> > >
> > > >>> outsourcing continue to make it compelling, with cost savings and
> > >
> > > >>> efficiency improvements being the dominant reasons companies use
> such
> > >
> > > >>> services. However, companies biggest concerns on outsourcing
> > >
> > > >>> relate to
> > >
> > > >>> data security.
> > >
> > > >>>
> > >
> > > >>>
> > >
> > > >>> -----------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > >>>
> > >
> > > >>> The move, seen a precautionary measure in the face of growing
> > >
> > > >>> competition, marks a complete turnaround by the mobile provider
> which
> > >
> > > >>> in July last year had sought quotations from local Business Process
> > >
> > > >>> Outsourcing (BPO) firms.
> > >
> > > >>>
> > >
> > > >>> "Outsourcing the customer care function proved to be too expensive
> > >
> > > >>> for
> > >
> > > >>> the kind of quality that we required. We will just have to run the
> > >
> > > >>> service in-house," said Safaricom chief executive Michael Joseph.
> > >
> > > >>>
> > >
> > > >>>
> > >
> > > >>> <http://www.nation.co.ke/business/news/-/1006/466372/-/jiyt3xz/-/>
> > > http://www.nation.co.ke/business/news/-/1006/466372/-/jiyt3xz/-/
> > >
> > > >>> index.html
> > >
> > > >>>
> > >
> > > >>>
> > >
> > > >>> On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 8:58 PM, Sean Moroney
> > >
> > > >>> < <seanm at aitecafrica.com>seanm at aitecafrica.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >>>> Dear Liko,
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> We would like to invite you to make a presentation at the
> > >
> > > >>>> forthcoming
> > >
> > > >>>> Outsourcing & Contact Centre Conference, which we will be holding
> > >
> > > >>>> over 4-5
> > >
> > > >>>> November under the auspices of the Ministry of Information &
> > >
> > > >>>> Communications
> > >
> > > >>>> and in partnership with the ICT Board. The programme of confirmed
> > >
> > > >>>> presentations so far is attached.
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> It would be great if you would be willing to share your experience
> > >
> > > >>>> with the
> > >
> > > >>>> other participants.
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> Yours sincerely,
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> Sean Moroney
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> Chairman
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> AITEC Africa
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> <seanm at aitecafrica.com>seanm at aitecafrica.com
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> UK Tel: +44(0)1480-880774
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> UK Fax: +44(0)1480-880765
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> UK Mobile: +44(0)7973-499224
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> Kenya Mobile: +254(0)721-845674
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> Mozambique Mobile: +258-82-6181618
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> Nigeria Mobile: +234(0)802-0571766
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> SA Mobile: +27(0)724-577887
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> Skype: seanmoroney
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> <http://www.aitecafrica.com>www.aitecafrica.com
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> Please visit our discussion group on The Banking Technology sector
> > >
> > > >>>> in Africa
> > >
> > > >>>> at: <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/africanbankingtech>
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/africanbankingtech
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> AITEC Africa is the trading name of AITEC Conferences Limited
> > >
> > > >>>> UK Company registration number: 4698475
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> ________________________________
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> From: kictanet-bounces+seanm= <aitecafrica.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> >
> > > aitecafrica.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> > >
> > > >>>> [ <kictanet-bounces>mailto:kictanet-bounces <kictanet-bounces>
> > >
> > > >>>> +seanm= <aitecafrica.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> > > aitecafrica.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke] On
> > >
> > > >>>> Behalf Of Peres Were
> > >
> > > >>>> Sent: 01 September 2008 12:23
> > >
> > > >>>> To: <seanm at aitecafrica.com>seanm at aitecafrica.com
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> Cc: 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'
> > >
> > > >>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Stakeholder Queries:
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> Liko,
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> It would be great to hear from you and others, your insights into
> > >
> > > >>>> sales and
> > >
> > > >>>> marketing insights that can benefit the BPO, KPO sector. We can
> > >
> > > >>>> continue the
> > >
> > > >>>> discussion off the list.
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> Kind regards
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> Peres Were
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> ________________________________
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> From: kictanet-bounces+pwere= <cascadegl.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> > > cascadegl.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> > >
> > > >>>> [ <kictanet-bounces+pwere=cascadegl.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> > > mailto:kictanet-bounces <kictanet-bounces>+pwere=
> > > cascadegl.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke]
> > >
> > > >>>> On Behalf
> > >
> > > >>>> Of Liko Agosta
> > >
> > > >>>> Sent: 01 September 2008 10:33
> > >
> > > >>>> To: <pwere at cascadegl.com>pwere at cascadegl.com
> > >
> > > >>>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
> > >
> > > >>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Stakeholder Queries:
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> About ICT Board and all these Boards …
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> Do they ever have open sessions where stakeholders can review
> > >
> > > >>>> strategy,
> > >
> > > >>>> advice, brainstorm ?
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> As CEO of verviant, I have been able to get business … I feel like
> > >
> > > >>>> I have
> > >
> > > >>>> insights into the sales and marketing process that can benefit
> other
> > >
> > > >>>> software/ICT providers …
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> Thanks
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> Liko Agosta, CEO
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> Verviant Consulting Services.
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> <http://www.verviant.com>www.verviant.com
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> Phone : 1-919-341-1820
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> Fax : 1-978-268-8403
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> Toll Free: 1-866-551-4935
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> Pager: <9193891551 at txt.att.net>9193891551 at txt.att.net
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > >
> > > >>>> From: Brian Longwe < <blongwe at gmail.com>blongwe at gmail.com>
> > >
> > > >>>> Date: Aug 29, 2008 9:31 AM
> > >
> > > >>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ICT Board Strategy a Farce
> > >
> > > >>>> To: <wambuiwakarema at yahoo.co.uk>wambuiwakarema at yahoo.co.uk
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> Very strong language - but I think you should relax as your
> > >
> > > >>>> concerns are
> > >
> > > >>>> unfounded.
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> I am at the Strategic retreat. Unfortunately Gilda Odera -
> > >
> > > >>>> Chairperson of
> > >
> > > >>>> BPO, who was supposed to be present had to cancel at the last
> > >
> > > >>>> minute.
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> Brian
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> On 8/29/08, Wambui Wakarema < <wambuiwakarema at yahoo.co.uk>
> > > wambuiwakarema at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> I have read with surprise the Kictanet mailout from the ICT Board
> > >
> > > >>>> claiming
> > >
> > > >>>> they are going for a stakeholders strategy workshop in Naivasha.
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> Who are these stakeholders? Are there any representing the BPO
> > >
> > > >>>> sector?? I
> > >
> > > >>>> ask this because I have contacted the industry association and
> > >
> > > >>>> they dont
> > >
> > > >>>> seem
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> to be in the know either. This is quite bizarre, especially since
> > >
> > > >>>> BPO is a
> > >
> > > >>>> key sector of the ICT Board's mandate.
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> Who are the stakeholders from the other ICT sectors? Shouldnt the
> > >
> > > >>>> Board be
> > >
> > > >>>> getting input from key stakeholders at this workshop.
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> They are wasting government resources going to write strategies
> > >
> > > >>>> and then
> > >
> > > >>>> 'presenting' to stakeholders, yet stakeholders should have been
> > >
> > > >>>> involved
> > >
> > > >>>> from the word go.
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>> The
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > > >>>
> > >
> > > >>>
> > >
> > > >>> --
> > >
> > > >>> David Otwoma,
> > >
> > > >>> Chief Science Secretary,
> > >
> > > >>> National Council for Science and Technology,
> > >
> > > >>> Utalii House 9th Floor,
> > >
> > > >>> Mobile tel: +254 722 141771,
> > >
> > > >>> Office tel: +254 (0)20 2346915,
> > >
> > > >>> P. O. Box 29899 - 00100, Nairobi, Kenya
> > >
> > > >>> email: <otwomad at gmail.com>otwomad at gmail.com & <otwoma at ncst.go.ke>
> > > otwoma at ncst.go.ke
> > >
> > > >>> <http://www.ncst.go.ke>www.ncst.go.ke
> > >
> > > >>>
> > >
> > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > >>> kictanet mailing list
> > >
> > > >>> <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> > >
> > > >>> <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
> > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> > >
> > > >>>
> > >
> > > >>> This message was sent to: <brian at caret.net>brian at caret.net
> > >
> > > >>> Unsubscribe or change your options at <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/>
> > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/
> > >
> > > >>> mailman/options/kictanet/brian%40caret.net
> > >
> > > >>
> > >
> > > >>
> > >
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > >> kictanet mailing list
> > >
> > > >> <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> > >
> > > >> <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
> > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> > >
> > > >>
> > >
> > > >> This message was sent to: <godera at skyweb.co.ke>godera at skyweb.co.ke
> > >
> > > >> Unsubscribe or change your options at <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/>
> > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/
> > >
> > > >> mailman/options/kictanet/godera%40sky <http://web.co.ke>web.co.ke
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > > kictanet mailing list
> > >
> > > > <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> > >
> > > > <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
> > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > This message was sent to: <otwomad at gmail.com>otwomad at gmail.com
> > >
> > > > Unsubscribe or change your options at
> > > <
> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otwomad%40gmail.com>
> > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/otwomad%40gmail.com
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > David Otwoma,
> > >
> > > Chief Science Secretary,
> > >
> > > National Council for Science and Technology,
> > >
> > > Utalii House 9th Floor,
> > >
> > > Mobile tel: +254 722 141771,
> > >
> > > Office tel: +254 (0)20 2346915,
> > >
> > > P. O. Box 29899 - 00100, Nairobi, Kenya
> > >
> > > email: <otwomad at gmail.com>otwomad at gmail.com & <otwoma at ncst.go.ke>
> > > otwoma at ncst.go.ke
> > >
> > > www.ncst.go.ke
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > kictanet mailing list
> > >
> > > <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> > >
> > > <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
> > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> > >
> > > This message was sent to: <likoa at verviant.com>likoa at verviant.com
> > >
> > > Unsubscribe or change your options at
> > > <
> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/likoa%40verviant.com
> > >
> > >
> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/likoa%40verviant.com
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > kictanet mailing list
> > >
> > > <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> > >
> > > <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
> > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > This message was sent to: <brian at caret.net>brian at caret.net
> > >
> > > Unsubscribe or change your options at
> > > <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/brian%40caret.net>
> > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/brian%40caret.net
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > kictanet mailing list
> > > <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> > > <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
> > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> > >
> > > This message was sent to: <godera at skyweb.co.ke>godera at skyweb.co.ke
> > > Unsubscribe or change your options at
> > > <
> > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/godera%40skyweb.co.ke
> >
> > >
> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/godera%40skyweb.co.ke
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > kictanet mailing list
> > > kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> > >
> > > This message was sent to: <blongwe at gmail.com>blongwe at gmail.com
> > > Unsubscribe or change your options at
> > > <
> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com>
> > > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Brian Munyao Longwe
> > > e-mail: blongwe at gmail.com
> > > cell: + 254 722 518 744
> > > blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com
> > > meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kictanet mailing list
> > kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> >
> > This message was sent to: lmwatibo.ktd at gmail.com
> > Unsubscribe or change your options at
> >
> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lmwatibo.ktd%40gmail.com
> >
>
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