[kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya
Joseph Manthi
jmanthi at gmail.com
Sat Jul 12 21:12:26 EAT 2008
Kevit
This is the height of arrogance - excuse my sceptism. The names you have
just mentioned are the exact reasons why Kenyan's should be very ashamed of
themselves.
I do not see Kenyan's directing major corporations in India and Europe.
Joe
On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 12:52 PM, kevit desai <kevit at centurionsystemsltd.com>
wrote:
> Dear Brian,
>
> Apologies accepted. And thank you Mr Chairman.
>
>
>
> Wambui it is acceptable to challenge governance structures and also wish to
> know more about associations. How else will we seek your support with some
> off the very exciting things we are doing.
>
>
>
> What deeply concerns me is the notion that associations should be run by
> Kenyans. We all have to rise well above this, especially when we see the
> success and contributions of some people. Kenya's grateful to have people
> like Mike Eldon, Steve Smith, Michael Joseph, Marcel Werner, and others,
> they have contributed so much. Even to the peace process let alone the
> advances in ICT's.
>
> Kictanet must stamp out any form of racist remarks. This is the lowest of
> the lowest, and contributes to disengagement. Rules have to be put in place.
>
>
>
> Your leadership is a sigh of relief. And I look forward to you uniting us
> all to a common vision of ICT's for National development.
>
>
>
> I am waiting….
>
>
>
> Kevit Desai
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com@
> lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit<kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit>
> =centurionsystemsltd.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke] *On Behalf Of *Brian Munyao
> Longwe
> *Sent:* 12 July 2008 09:50
> *To:* kevit at centurionsystemsltd.com
> *Cc:* kictanet-lists
> *Subject:* [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation
> fore-Commerce in Kenya
>
>
>
> Dear Marcel/Kevit/KIF,
>
>
>
> I will personally take this opportunity to apologize on behalf of KICTANET
> for the ills which KIF has suffered in the recent dialogue.
>
>
>
> As Kevit (and you) have clearly pointed out, KiF has welcomed anyone with
> questions to have these answered in person while at the same time providing
> as many answers as this media allows.
>
>
>
> I know both yourself and Kevit to be men of integrity and seriously
> dedicated to the advancement of IcTs in Kenya. I now humbly beg you to
> forgive the indiscretions by some of our members in their misuse of this
> forum.
>
>
>
> As Chairperson of this Network I will not stand by and see this forum
> turned into the kind of low and despicable rant-fests that have
> characterised certain other Kenyan lists and blogs.
>
>
>
> I hereby request a public apology to KIF on this list, from Alex, by
> Tuesday, failing which I will suspend his (and any other member who persists
> in mudslinging) list membership for one month.
>
>
>
> I once again humbly appeal to all members of this list to desist from the
> kind of myopic, vindictive banter that we have recently witnessed. We must
> work *together* for a better Kenya, and this will not come through
> tomfoolery and irresponsible words/actions.
>
>
>
> Sincerely
>
>
>
> Brian Munyao Longwe
>
> Chairman, KICTANET
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On 11 Jul 2008, at 10:44 PM, "Marcel Werner" <marcelcwerner at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hello Kictanet membership,
>
> The Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) is a reputable organization, duly registered
> and maintaining a proper governance system with a registered, paid-up
> membership base consisting of equally reputable ICT associations and
> companies.
>
> KIF has done a number of useful things over the period of its existence
> (see Kevit's posting, earlier this week).
>
> Recent postings on the Kictanet list appear to discredit our own
> organization KIF and its members with insinuations and slander. This is
> unacceptable.
>
> The Kictanet web-site shows KIF as a member of Kictanet (nr 8). We do not
> wish to be associated with an organization that lends itself to unhelpful
> campaigns by individuals, campaigns that can go on with impunity. There is
> no need at all to damage our and other's initiatives that are being
> implemented in the public interest (see again Kevit's posting) by informal
> networks with doubtful legitimacy. Please note that KIF has never signed any
> membership instrument with Kictanet, neither have we been charged nor have
> we paid for any membership fees. (page 9 of the Kenya ICT Action Network
> Competence Status Survey Assessment Report (posted on
> <http://www.kictanet.or.ke/>http://www.kictanet.or.ke/) highlights the
> membership problems of Kictanet. Personally I had highlighted this
> membership problem already a year ago in the interview that Kictanet held
> with us some time mid 2007 in the evaluation study of its role and
> performance – I have to conclude today that membership management has never
> been addressed at Kictanet). We instruct Kictanet to remove KIF from its
> list of its appointed "Members".
>
> We look forward to be part of a Kictanet that has a legitimate constituency
> because there is need for a place of dialogue between civil society and
> private sector. Kictanet is not playing such a role today at all and creates
> a space for civil society to alienate itself from the private sector.
> Kictanet needs to clean up its house.
>
> We need serious dialogue, between all sectors in society, and we need to
> reach out internationally. We don't have time for any nonsense.
>
> Best regards, Marcel Werner, chairman of KIF :)
>
>
>
> 2008/7/11 kevit desai < <kevit at centurionsystemsltd.com>
> kevit at centurionsystemsltd.com>:
>
> Alex,
> Kenya ICT Federation is a serious and well established organization,
> supported by its members who are also reputable and well established
> organizations.
> I confirm Centurion systems does not receive any money from KIF. Please
> verify the Business advocacy funds contributions and conditions since your
> information is false.
>
> It is not right to publish insinuations affecting KIF and its membership on
> a forum like Kictanet. Especially, since I have extended an invitation to
> meet so that I can give further explanations. I am waiting to gauge the
> interest in this invitation.
>
> For now I close my participation.
>
> Kevit Desai
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gakuru , Alex [mailto: <alexgakuru.lists at gmail.com>
> alexgakuru.lists at gmail.com]
> Sent: 11 July 2008 17:24
>
> To: kevit desai
> Cc: kictanet-lists
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
>
> Kevit;
>
> KIF recently received Kshs 3.5 grant million from a certain business fund.
> I am curious centurion system hosts them under their CSR?
>
> Public forum to explain all dealings openly and transparently?.
>
> regards,
>
> On 7/11/08, kevit desai < <kevit at centurionsystemsltd.com>
> kevit at centurionsystemsltd.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Sylvester,
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you for all the interest shown. Some of you would like further
> > information on the following activities:
> >
> >
> >
> > Historical & present- Impact
> >
> >
> >
> > - Ministerial stakeholder forum (regular sectoral discussions
> > private sector - Government, with KEPSA)
> >
> > - Power up with ICT nation - wide awareness campaigns (2004,
> 2005,
> > 2006)
> >
> > - E-Government - municipal councils
> >
> > - Open source software community
> >
> > - E-commerce legislation
> >
> > - Engineering student exhibition - 1997 - 2008
> >
> > - ICT Bills (2006 - 2008)
> >
> > - Creation of INFOCOM Ministry (2003)
> >
> > - National ICT Policy formulation (2004 - 2006)
> >
> > - Tax reforms 2006, 2007, 2008
> >
> > - National innovation system
> >
> > - University Education Reforms Task Force (2006 - current)
> >
> > - PSDS
> >
> > - Africon 2009
> >
> > - Public panels with Kenya ICT Board
> >
> >
> >
> > Associations:
> >
> >
> >
> > - KEPSA
> >
> > - KIF
> >
> > - IEEE
> >
> > - Kenya software industry association
> >
> >
> > Please confirm your interest in a meeting. This will allow me to gauge
> level
> > of participation so as to plan the venue and also mobilize the relevant
> > leaders. If you are not on board, it would be great to have you on board.
> We
> > need your support
> >
> >
> >
> > Kevit Desai
> >
> >
> >
> > Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems
> >
> > Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
> >
> > Chairman - Engineering students exhibition
> >
> > Governor - KEPSA
> >
> > Director - KEPSA
> >
> > Director - Innovation Africa
> >
> > Director- Kenya ICT Board
> >
> > Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
> >
> > BOA - AIESEC
> >
> > Member - National Strategy for University Education
> >
> > Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
> >
> > General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
> >
> > 2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, Raphta Rd, Westlands -Nairobi
> >
> > P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
> >
> > Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
> >
> > Mobile: +254 722 517067
> >
> > <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/>http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
> >
> > <http://www.ieee.org/>http://www.ieee.org
> >
> > <http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/>
> http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke
> >
> > <http://www.innovation-africa.net/>http://www.innovation-africa.net
> >
> > <http://www.kepsa.or.ke/>http://www.kepsa.or.ke
> >
> > <http://www.powerup.co.ke/>http://www.powerup.co.ke
> >
> > <http://www.aiesec.org/>http://www.aiesec.org
> >
> > <http://www.africon2007.co.za/>http://www.africon2007.co.za
> >
> > <http://www.kif.or.ke/>http://www.kif.or.ke
> >
> > <http://www.ict.go.ke/>www.ict.go.ke
> >
> > <http://www.globalcompact.org/>http://www.globalcompact.org
> >
> > <http://www.undp.org/business/gsb>http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> >
> > From:
> > kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> >
> [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit <kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit>=
> centurionsystemsltd.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke]
> > On Behalf Of Brian Longwe
> > Sent: 10 July 2008 18:57
> > To: <kevit at centurionsystemsltd.com>kevit at centurionsystemsltd.com
> >
> > Cc: kictanet-lists
> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in
> Kenya
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Sylvester,
> >
> > Thank you so very much for highlighting yet another way in which
> KICTANET
> > is beneficial to the communicat at large. through KICTANET we all learn
> so
> > many good things that are happening in/around - and can then make our own
> > decisions as to whether to follow up/engage.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Brian
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Sylvester Kisonzo
> > < <skisonzo at securenet.co.ke>skisonzo at securenet.co.ke> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > And where can I read (or get information) about all these new names to
> me?
> > KEPSA, KIF, etc? Until recently when I joined this group, I had never
> heard
> > of them. So I wonder how all the 'stakeholders' have all along been
> > involved.
> >
> >
> >
> > SK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From:
> > kictanet-bounces+skisonzo=gmail.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> > [mailto:kictanet-bounces+skisonzo <kictanet-bounces%2Bskisonzo>=
> gmail.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke]
> > On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi
> > Sent: 09 July 2008 20:47
> > To: <skisonzo at gmail.com>skisonzo at gmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Cc: kictanet-lists
> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in
> Kenya
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Waudo:
> > I would like to pose a simple question:
> >
> > Why are these associations needed?
> >
> > Joe
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga <<emailsignet at mailcan.com>
> emailsignet at mailcan.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the private sector voice. The
> > idea was to bring together EXISTING associations. Someone got early wind
> > that ICT was one of the identified sectors and decided to register a NEW
> > association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The real umbrella body was
> > actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT Board. Period. Why did
> > someone find a pressing need to form a NEW association???
> >
> > Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT Board is on the right
> > track with all associations on board. We have to struggle to make sure
> > it stays that way. I do not understand why you seem to be insisting on
> > someone visiting KIF. What is the value addition? What can one discover
> > there??? Some say there are personal companies underneath and KIF is the
> > front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My interest is KEPSA ICT
> > Board not being equated with KIF.
> > Waudo
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe"
> > < <blongwe at gmail.com>blongwe at gmail.com> said:
> > > Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF is KEPSAs "child" i.e when
> > > KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF was established *by* KEpsa
> > > to act as the umbrella for ICT private sector.
> > >
> > > But I stand to be corrected if I'm getting my facts wrong. But if I am
> > > right then it *is* important for any critics to understand the inner
> > > workings by visiting.
> > >
> > > I am urging action instead of just talk.
> > >
> > > Brian
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > > On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo siganga" <<emailsignet at mailcan.com>
> emailsignet at mailcan.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in the
> > > > internal
> > > > operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context of
> KEPSA/
> > > > KIF
> > > > relationship, something also of interest to the consumer community.
> > > > For
> > > > your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting in KEPSA
> > > > and
> > > > decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector
> > > > associations. This was after it was observed that the hitherto
> > > > stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not
> adequately
> > > > represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even insecure with
> > > > this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit, being the
> KEPSA
> > > > ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as if it is
> a
> > > > favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm that the
> > > > KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the other
> > > > associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF Positions"
> > > > instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF letterheads at the
> > > > MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in KEPSA
> > > > but I
> > > > am hopeful things will change.
> > > >
> > > > Waudo
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe"
> > > > < <blongwe at gmail.com>blongwe at gmail.com> said:
> > > >> Hi Alex,
> > > >>
> > > >> I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can explain to
> > > >> you
> > > >> about KIF.
> > > >>
> > > >> I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to you (and
> > > >> anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend the next
> KIF
> > > >> meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
> > > >>
> > > >> Brian
> > > >>
> > > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > > >>
> > > >> On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru < <alex.gakuru at yahoo.com>
> alex.gakuru at yahoo.com>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Kevit:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall not ask
> you
> > > >>> further KEPSA questions although on your previous email you told
> > > >>> Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other
> > > >>> association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this now
> > > >>> appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of
> > > >>> "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I could be
> wrong
> > > >>> but he could clarify.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software Industry
> > > >>> Association established" with, among others, "3.1 Objective,
> Market
> > > >>> the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see
> > > >>> announcement document attached) Was it registered under Societies
> > > >>> Act
> > > >>> ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit) Company?
> I
> > > >>> found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very successful and
> > > >>> OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On the links you sent onlist:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> <http://www.innovation-africa.net/>www.innovation-africa.net
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET<http://innovation-africa.net/>
> > > >>> Registrar: TUCOWS INC.
> > > >>> Whois Server: whois.tucows.com
> > > >>> Referral URL: <http://domainhelp.opensrs.net/>
> http://domainhelp.opensrs.net
> > > >>> Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET <http://ultra103.uk2.net/>
> > > >>> Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET <http://ultra104.uk2.net/>
> > > >>> Status: redemptionPeriod
> > > >>> Updated Date: 24-jun-2008
> > > >>> Creation Date: 14-may-2007
> > > >>> Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I tried <http://www.innovation-africa.co.ke/>
> www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing to >>
> > <http://www.kif.or.ke/>www.kif.or.ke
> > > >>> ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather Centurion
> > > >>> Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> What I am trying is to understand is who speaks in the background
> > > >>> when when "KIF" issues "stakeholders" statements on an issue,how
> > > >>> representative or public service-oriented, good governance, in
> > > >>> trying to understand new and old associations' motives.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> With above information, it would clear doubts of public policy
> > > >>> participation illegitimacy or inappropriate public procurement
> > > >>> involvement(s). For the sake of our growing transparent ICTs
> > > >>> abundantly rewarding enterprising citizens.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Alex
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> --- On Wed, 7/9/08, kevit desai
> > < <kevit at centurionsystemsltd.com>kevit at centurionsystemsltd.com>
> > > >>> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> From: kevit desai < <kevit at centurionsystemsltd.com>
> kevit at centurionsystemsltd.com>
> > > >>>> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce
> > > >>>> in Kenya
> > > >>>> To: <alex.gakuru at yahoo.com>alex.gakuru at yahoo.com
> > > >>>> Cc: "'kictanet-lists'"
> > < <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> > > >>>> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:50 AM
> > > >>>> Hi Alex,
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I'm pleased to clarify as much as I can.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Kepsa has an open membership of PRIVATE sector industry and
> > > >>>> market segment
> > > >>>> associations in almost all economic sectors. Independence:
> > > >>>> KEPSA decisions
> > > >>>> are dependent on members wishes, and members are drawn from
> > > >>>> the private
> > > >>>> sector. In fact, NGO's are not approached for
> > > >>>> membership in KEPSA, neither
> > > >>>> are government bodies including parastatals. KIF follows
> > > >>>> the same approach
> > > >>>> for membership and decision-making. No NGO's and
> > > >>>> government agencies are
> > > >>>> member ofn KIF. However, KEPSA and KIF consult on a REGULAR
> > > >>>> BASIS with all
> > > >>>> those stakeholders. Having said that, KEPSA and KIF have no
> > > >>>> obligation to
> > > >>>> offer service to non members.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Hopefully this helps to clarify. Do get in touch with Sam
> > > >>>> Mwaura of KEPSA or
> > > >>>> Marcel Werner of KIF.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Kevit
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> -----Original Message-----
> > > >>>> From: Alex Gakuru [mailto: <alex.gakuru at yahoo.com>
> alex.gakuru at yahoo.com]
> > > >>>> Sent: 09 July 2008 04:45
> > > >>>> To: kevit desai
> > > >>>> Cc: kictanet-lists
> > > >>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for
> > > >>>> e-Commerce in Kenya
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Kevit,
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> How does KEPSA and KIF governance relate ensuring decisions
> > > >>>> independence?
> > > >>>> The political issue here may be monopolization to the
> > > >>>> extent of clouding out
> > > >>>> other actors thereby generating conflict. The Motive Theory
> > > >>>> steps in.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> We investigate the effects of competition on subjects'
> > > >>>> attitude towards
> > > >>>> cooperation. Three groups face three economic environments
> > > >>>> with different
> > > >>>> degrees of competition, from a benchmark case with no
> > > >>>> competition at all up
> > > >>>> to a perfect competition case. Subjects contribute
> > > >>>> generously to a public
> > > >>>> project in the absence of competition, whereas they
> > > >>>> contribute very little
> > > >>>> in the presence of a maximum degree of competition. A
> > > >>>> diminishing attitude
> > > >>>> towards cooperation clearly emerges as the degree of
> > > >>>> competition increases.
> > > >>>> Therefore, if cooperation does enhance well-being, the
> > > >>>> maximum degree of
> > > >>>> competition may be not efficient.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> >
> <<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba>
> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/B6W5H-4N0GDV1-1/2/fb32f4c6e9ba
> > > >>>> 6a6f51d7da9d40d806eb>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> react.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> --- On Tue, 7/8/08, kevit desai
> > > >>>> < <kevit at centurionsystemsltd.com>kevit at centurionsystemsltd.com>
> wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> From: kevit desai
> > > >>>> < <kevit at centurionsystemsltd.com>kevit at centurionsystemsltd.com>
> > > >>>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for
> > > >>>> e-Commerce in Kenya
> > > >>>>> To: <alex.gakuru at yahoo.com>alex.gakuru at yahoo.com
> > > >>>>> Cc: <secretariat at kif.or.ke>secretariat at kif.or.ke, "'KICTAnet
> ICT
> > > >>>> Policy Discussions'"
> > > >>>> < <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> > > >>>>> Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:14 PM
> > > >>>>> Hi Waudo,
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any other
> > > >>>>> association to full
> > > >>>>> membership of KEPSA. We look forward to a meaningful
> > > >>>>> partnership.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Kevit Desai
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> _____
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> From: waudo siganga
> > [mailto: <emailsignet at mailcan.com>emailsignet at mailcan.com]
> > > >>>>> Sent: 08 July 2008 13:55
> > > >>>>> To: Kevit Desai
> > > >>>>> Cc: <secretariat at kif.or.ke>secretariat at kif.or.ke; 'KICTAnet ICT
> Policy
> > > >>>>> Discussions'
> > > >>>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for
> > > >>>>> e-Commerce in Kenya
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Hello Kevit - I think one needs to be careful when
> > > >>>> handling
> > > >>>>> KEPSA and KIF at
> > > >>>>> the same time. Do not use your foothold in KEPSA to
> > > >>>> promote
> > > >>>>> KIF at the
> > > >>>>> expense of other associations. The explanation is very
> > > >>>>> simple: KEPSA was
> > > >>>>> formed as a focal point, a bringing together
> > > >>>> characterised
> > > >>>>> by INCLUSIVITY.
> > > >>>>> KIF on the other hand is an independent association
> > > >>>> and the
> > > >>>>> nature of such
> > > >>>>> an association is EXCLUSIVITY (through membership
> > > >>>>> mechanism). I would like
> > > >>>>> to see the promotion of more associations on the KEPSA
> > > >>>> ICT
> > > >>>>> Board, not just
> > > >>>>> KIF. Please give us space.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Waudo
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:07:07 +0300, "Kevit
> > > >>>> Desai"
> > > >>>>> < <kevit at centurionsystemsltd.com>kevit at centurionsystemsltd.com>
> said:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Hi Alex,
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> KEPSA ( <info at kepsa.or.ke>info at kepsa.or.ke): private sector
> policy body
> > > >>>> with
> > > >>>>> its own governance
> > > >>>>> structure. Elected as a director in private capacity
> > > >>>> and as
> > > >>>>> KIF vice
> > > >>>>> chairman.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> KIF ( <secretariat at kif.or.ke>secretariat at kif.or.ke):
> membership-based industry
> > > >>>>> association, member
> > > >>>>> of KEPSA's ICT section. Elected as vice-chairman.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Centurion Systems Ltd: ( <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/>
> www.centurionsystemsltd.com)
> > > >>>>> private company,
> > > >>>>> director, member of KIF.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems Ltd
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Chairperson - Engineering Students Exhibition
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Governor - KEPSA
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Director - KEPSA
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Director - Innovation Africa
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Director- Kenya ICT Board
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> BOA - AIESEC
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Member - National Strategy for University Education
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP
> > > >>>> Kenya
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> 2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse,
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Raphta Rd
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> , Westlands -Nairobi
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020
> > > >>>>> 2049750
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Mobile: +254 722 517067
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> <http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com/>
> http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> <http://www.ieee.org/>http://www.ieee.org
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> <http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke/>
> http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> <http://www.innovation-africa.net/>
> http://www.innovation-africa.net
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> <http://www.kepsa.or.ke/>http://www.kepsa.or.ke
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> <http://www.powerup.co.ke/>http://www.powerup.co.ke
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> <http://www.aiesec.org/>http://www.aiesec.org
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> <http://www.africon2007.co.za/>http://www.africon2007.co.za
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> <http://www.kif.or.ke/>http://www.kif.or.ke
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> htpp:// <http://www.ict.go.ke/>www.ict.go.ke
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> <http://www.globalcompact.org/>http://www.globalcompact.org
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> <http://www.undp.org/business/gsb>
> http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > > >>>>> From: waudo siganga
> > [mailto: <emailsignet at mailcan.com>emailsignet at mailcan.com]
> > > >>>>> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 9:40 PM
> > > >>>>> To: kevit desai
> > > >>>>> Cc: <secretariat at kif.or.ke>secretariat at kif.or.ke; 'KICTAnet ICT
> Policy
> > > >>>>> Discussions'
> > > >>>>> Subject: RE: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for
> > > >>>>> e-Commerce in Kenya
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Hello Kevit - Since you sent this message to KICTANET
> > > >>>> I can
> > > >>>>> answer it on
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> the same forum. I think the picture being painted
> > > >>>> about a
> > > >>>>> rosy situation
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> including "collaboration" is simply not
> > > >>>> true. The
> > > >>>>> reason to be frank is
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> that there a few in your KIF who do not want any other
> > > >>>>> association to
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> have a voice in KEPSA or to interact with Government.
> > > >>>> Could
> > > >>>>> you as a
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> KEPSA director ensure that all interested associations
> > > >>>>> including the
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> major ones not in KIF are allowed room to contribute
> > > >>>> in
> > > >>>>> KEPSA? It can be
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> sad if you mis-use your position in KEPSA only to
> > > >>>> promote
> > > >>>>> KIF and crack
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> down on those you feel are in the way.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Waudo
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:02:31 +0300, "kevit
> > > >>>> desai"
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> < <kevit at centurionsystemsltd.com>kevit at centurionsystemsltd.com>
> said:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Hi Walu,
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Associations are welcome to be members of KEPSA.
> > > >>>> I
> > > >>>>> would like to confirm
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> that the KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant. We
> > > >>>> would
> > > >>>>> like to do a lot
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> more
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> and welcome more support.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> We appreciate Waudo's contributions at our
> > > >>>> last
> > > >>>>> ministerial stakeholder
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> forum.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Collaboration is the way forward.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Kevit Desai
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> KEPSA Director
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> From:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> >
> [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit <kictanet-bounces%2Bkevit>=
> centurionsystemsltd.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> > > >>>> ]
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> On Behalf Of waudo siganga
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Sent: 07 July 2008 19:02
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> To: <kevit at centurionsystemsltd.com>
> kevit at centurionsystemsltd.com
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Cc: <secretariat at kif.or.ke>secretariat at kif.or.ke; KICTAnet ICT
> Policy
> > > >>>>> Discussions
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and
> > > >>>> Regulation for
> > > >>>>> e-Commerce in
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Kenya
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Hi Walu - I am catching you loud and clear on
> > > >>>> GPRS
> > > >>>>> somewhere in the
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> bush. I did bring out the issue of regulating the
> > > >>>> IT
> > > >>>>> (or ICT) Profession
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> on this list a few months ago. But the rather
> > > >>>>> unenthusiastic response I
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> got gave me the sense that possibly this was not
> > > >>>> the
> > > >>>>> correct list since
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> many of the subscribers appear just interested in
> > > >>>> ICT
> > > >>>>> Policy rather than
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> being actual IT Experts. Within the next two
> > > >>>> weeks
> > > >>>>> there will be another
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> list for professionals and you will be informed
> > > >>>> (you
> > > >>>>> have the
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> qualifications, don't you??). We are pushing
> > > >>>> for a
> > > >>>>> registration board
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> like thise done last yeaer for nutritionists and
> > > >>>>> Procurement
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Practitioners. There is a lot of work going on
> > > >>>>> unheralded. All we need
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> is a champion or chanpions in the right place.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Waudo
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 02:45:53 -0700 (PDT),
> > > >>>> "John
> > > >>>>> Walubengo"
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> < <jwalu at yahoo.com>jwalu at yahoo.com> said:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Marcel,
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> It looks like quite some work has been
> > > >>>> ongoing in
> > > >>>>> this
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was
> > > >>>>> restricted within KIF only?
> > > >>>>> I
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK,
> > > >>>> Waudo r
> > > >>>>> u there?) or
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Information Security Audit & Control
> > > >>>>> (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just to
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> mention some of the big IT Associations in
> > > >>>> Kenya
> > > >>>>> were involved. I beg to
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> be enlightened.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> This brings in an old question - who really
> > > >>>>> represents the IT Profession
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> in Kenya? Shem has been on record as saying
> > > >>>> that
> > > >>>>> IT is the only
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> discipline where we seem to lack bodies with
> > > >>>> the
> > > >>>>> same authority as LSK
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> (Law Society of Kenya), IEK (Institute of
> > > >>>>> Engineers of Kenya), Medical
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Practictioners Board amongst others to
> > > >>>> regulate
> > > >>>>> the IT Profession.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the
> > > >>>> bill
> > > >>>>> either (and has a
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> different objective anyway). But time has
> > > >>>> come
> > > >>>>> to really start thinking
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> of regulating the IT profession, even as we
> > > >>>>> struggle to regulate the
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead
> > > >>>> on
> > > >>>>> this, but they have been
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> awfully quite except when they award prizes
> > > >>>> at
> > > >>>>> the end of the year
> > > >>>>> (Waudo
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> I know u will kill me offline but I just had
> > > >>>> to
> > > >>>>> say it!).
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> KEPSA? very reputable and effective
> > > >>>> particularly
> > > >>>>> in the Manufacturing
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> sector but on IT? am not sure they have been
> > > >>>> as
> > > >>>>> effective - particularly
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the
> > > >>>> IT
> > > >>>>> industry has been 'cloudy'
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> for lack of a better word...Can for example
> > > >>>> CSK
> > > >>>>> or ISACA be part of
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> KEPSA without being part of KIF? I again
> > > >>>> need to
> > > >>>>> be enlightened.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just
> > > >>>> thinking
> > > >>>>> loudly and saying that as
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> we think of regulating electronic
> > > >>>> transactions,
> > > >>>>> we also need to
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> simultaneously start regulating the IT
> > > >>>>> profession..but maybe I am wrong.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Particularly because regulation can and
> > > >>>> often
> > > >>>>> leads to suppression...
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> walu.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner
> > > >>>>> < <marcelcwerner at gmail.com>marcelcwerner at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> From: Marcel Werner
> > > >>>>> < <marcelcwerner at gmail.com>marcelcwerner at gmail.com>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and
> > > >>>>> Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> To: <jwalu at yahoo.com>jwalu at yahoo.com
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Cc: <secretariat at kif.or.ke>secretariat at kif.or.ke,
> > > >>>> "KICTAnet
> > > >>>>> ICT Policy Discussions"
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> < <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> >
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Legislation and Regulation for
> > > >>>> e-Commerce in
> > > >>>>> Kenya
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing
> > > >>>> Note #
> > > >>>>> 3 - Report -
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Public Panel 19
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> June 2008
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will
> > > >>>> add
> > > >>>>> at least one
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> percent point growth
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> to Kenya's overall economic growth
> > > >>>>> within five years.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> This is contingent
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> upon the adoption of legislation that
> > > >>>>> supports electronic
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> transactions. *Kenya,
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> as an emerging economy and regional
> > > >>>> leader,
> > > >>>>> lags behind in
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> having a legal
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> framework for e-commerce in place. The
> > > >>>>> current situation is
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> an anachronism
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> hampering national development, placing
> > > >>>>> provincial centres
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> at a
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> disadvantage, and harming global
> > > >>>>> competitiveness. Both
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> external and internal
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> trade require the new framework.The
> > > >>>> Kenyan
> > > >>>>> private sector
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> strongly supports
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> e-commerce legislation, as well as
> > > >>>>> legislation of the
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Information and
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Communication Technology sector that
> > > >>>>> guarantees an open
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> market and promotes
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> innovation.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation
> > > >>>>> supporting
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> electronic transactions
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> represents the single most powerful
> > > >>>>> innovation opportunity
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> in the legal
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> framework of the ICT sector.
> > > >>>> Legislation is
> > > >>>>> needed to:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by
> > > >>>>> recognizing an
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> electronic signature
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> -Manage and control e-commerce r
> > > >>> <KENYA SOFTWARE INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION.doc>
> > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>> kictanet mailing list
> > > >>> <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> > > >>>
> > <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> > > >>>
> > > >>> This message was sent to: <blongwe at gmail.com>blongwe at gmail.com
> > > >>> Unsubscribe or change your options at
> >
> <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com>
> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> kictanet mailing list
> > > >> <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> > > >> <http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet>
> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> > > >>
> > > >> This message was sent to: <emailsignet at mailcan.com>
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> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/emailsignet%40mailcan.c
> om
> > > > People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom makes people work
> > > > (Confucius).
> > > >
> > People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom makes people work
> (Confucius).
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Joseph Manthi
> > CEO
> > MEO Ltd
> > <http://www.meoltd.com/>http://www.meoltd.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kictanet mailing list
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Brian Munyao Longwe
> > e-mail: <blongwe at gmail.com>blongwe at gmail.com
> > cell: + 254 722 518 744
> > blog : <http://zinjlog.blogspot.com/>http://zinjlog.blogspot.com
> > meta-blog: <http://mashilingi.blogspot.com/>
> http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
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>
>
>
>
> --
> MARCEL
>
> please send any business mail to:
> <Marcel.Werner at innovation-africa.or.ke>
> Marcel.Werner at innovation-africa.or.ke
>
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--
Joseph Manthi
CEO
MEO Ltd
http://www.meoltd.com
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